Count Dooku and Mace Windu versus Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi.
They are all from ROTS and its only a lightsaber match(Kenobi would get pwn in the Force). The fight takes place in Geonosis execution arena.
Who wins?
Although Yoda is the best combatent here, Obi-Wan is certainley the worst, and Dooku could take him out fast with the force, and Mace I guess pretty fast in saber combat. Then they both go and kill Yoda. Yoda is not capable of killing either Mace or Dooku before the other kills Obi-Wan....
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Well, I don't know. I guess Kenobi could last pretty long against anyone with his Soresu, but doubt he will win any match. Yoda will win either of his, but it'll take a while as well. I don't know...
Good thread.
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I'm going with Yoda and Obi Wan.
Obi Wan, with his Soresu mastery could hold off Mace for a long time, and Yoda could beat Dooku, if he was going all out, in a relatively short amount of time.
But Mace could make pretty quick work of Obi-Wan I believe, with shatterpoint and all. Dooku is still good enough to hold out for a pretty long time against Yoda....
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Mace, in the ROTS Novel, spoke to Obi like they were on equal footing. Mace won't be able to draw from the darkside, because, Obi Wan is the very definition of a Jedi. Obi can handle 18 hits a second from Greivous, and can deal with a pissed Anakin, so I don't see him falling fast against the ferocity of Vaapad, and a shatterpoint will be hard to find with his unsurpassed Soresu mastery.
Sorry, I accidentally voted for Mace/Dooku before I realised that it was a saber duel.
In a saber duel I side with Yoda and Kenobi. Yoda and Mace are even, imho. But in a saber duel Kenobi could beat Dooku. The ROTS script states that Dooku was unable to get through Kenobi's defenses with his saber (which is why he had to take him out with the Force). Plus later on Kenobi is nearly as strong as Vader is with a blade and Vader beat Dooku. So Kenobi would take Dooku after a LONG fight. Then he and Yoda together could take out Mace.
In saber it goes:
1. Mace/Yoda (tie)
2. Kenobi
3. Dooku
That's funny, because even when using IMSDb I can't seem to find a single reference of anything that even hints to something like what you're saying. Care to prove up, and show me this copy of the script?
The only likeness I can find is in the RotS novelization, in which it states that "[Dooku] almost failed to notice that Kenobi met every one of his thrusts" (Ch. 3) relatively effortlessly. Aside from that, I see nothing.
You also omitted various key information in regards to that situation:
Do you think Obi-Wan will have such advantages in this scenario? I'd say not, considering the fact he knows jack shit about Count Dooku when compared to his relationship with Anakin. I mean, the circumstances of the Obi-Wan v. Anakin duel are entirely different from Dooku against Kenobi. And plus, Kenobi isn't as skilled, as strong, or as fast as Anakin is on paper.
To continue the point of #3, it's obvious that Obi-Wan doesn't need to move his footing much - if at all - to be effective. As the rest of the excerpt I posted when responding to the first quote, states he was able to block:
"...without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper" (Revenge of the Sith novel, Ch. 3)
So, it would seem that your conclusion, and support don't hold much value.
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Haha, in saber combat, it's close. Obi seems to have the best theoretical form to take him on, and a shotterpoint won't be an easy find against his unparalelled defences.
However, I only said he wouldn't fall fast. In the end, Mace would win, but I doubt it's be an easy one.
There is an understated elegance in Obi-Wan Kenobi's lightsaber technique, one that is quite unlike the feel one might get from the other great swordsbeings of the Jedi Order. He lacks entirely the flash, the pure bold elan of an Anakin Skywalker; there is nowhere in him the penumbral ferocity of a Mace Windu or a Depa Billaba nor the stylish grace of a Shaak Ti or a Dooku, and he is nothing resembling the whirlwind of destruction that Yoda can become.
He is simplicity itself.
That is his power.
Before Obi-Wan had left Coruscant, Mace Windu had told him of facing Grievous in single combat atop a mag-lev train during the general's daring raid to capture Palpatine. Mace had told him how the computers slaved to Grievous's brain had apparently analyzed even Mace's unconventionally lethal Vaapad and had been able to respond in kind after a single exchange.
«He must have been trained by Count Dooku,» Mace had said, «so you can expect Makashi as well; given the number of Jedi he has fought and slain, you must expect that he can attack in any style, or all of them. In fact, Obi-Wan, I believe that of all living Jedi, you have the best chance to defeat him.»
This pronouncement had startled Obi-Wan, and he had protested. After all, the only form in which he was truly even proficient was Soresu, which was the most common lightsaber form in the Jedi Order. Founded upon the basic deflection principles all Padawans were taught-to enable them to protect themselves from blaster bolts-Soresu was very simple, and so restrained and defense-oriented that it was very nearly downright passive.
«But surely, Master Windu,» Obi-Wan had said, «you, with the power of Vaapad-or Yoda's mastery of Ataro-"
Mace Windu had almost smiled. «I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light. Master Yoda's Ataro is also an answer to weakness: the limitations of reach and mobility imposed by his stature and his age. But for you? What weakness does Soresu answer?»
Blinking, Obi-Wan had been forced to admit he'd never actually thought of it that way.
«That is so like you, Master Kenobi,» the Korun Master had said, shaking his head. «I am called a great swordsman because I invented a lethal style; but who is greater, the creator of a killing form-or the master of the classic form?»
«I'm very flattered that you would consider me a master, but really-"
«Not a master. The master,» Mace had said. «Be who you are, and Grievous will never defeat you.»
But what if Mace fights Yoda and Obi fights Dooku, who is to say they would fight always the same. And Dooku is better in lightsaber dueling then Kenobi, this is for darthsith19.
And just because someone masters a defensive form, doesn't mean his defenses are umpenetrable.
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Last edited by Count Makashi on Mar 19th, 2007 at 01:11 PM
The reason he could handle that many strikes was because he could dodge like half of them, because Grievous doesn't have the senses of a jedi and is swinging more wildly than others. (Something like that, but it says it all in the ROTS novelisation)
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Mar 18th, 2007 12:52 PM
