i pick maul. Jacen is yet to win a saber fight against anyone of caliber. Granted he did beat Katarn, but beat him with the force.
So i take Maul with sabers
Jacen with the force (only because maul has never shown a great ability to manipulate the force)
and Maul overall, because he would be all over Jacen with his two blades to the extent that Caedus wouldn't have the opportunity to mount an overwhelming force attack.
Jacen injured Luke in a saber duel, true he didn't when but to last any length of time against Luke is most impressive. To actually land a blow on him...
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Seconded. You people really underrate Jacen. He took down Katarn and a pair of other Jedi Knights only a few weeks after sustaining huge injuries from putting up a good fight against Luke. That's better than Maul ever did.
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i think maul is underrated personally, just because he lost the only fight we ever saw... i mean, so did grievous, but he gets much fanboy hubbub. Jacen is teaching himself, Maul was trained by sidious. how would jacen know more than maul?
I don't actually read NJO / DN / LotF, but I am sure that Jacen learned most of his skills from Jedi as he was becoming a Jedi. And didn't Lumiya train him when he first turned to the dark side? Plus Luke recieved hardly any training and he's the strongest ever, would Maul beat him just cause he was trained by Sidious?
And, Maul is sometimes underrated, but not as much as he used to be. I wouldn't say Grievous gets a ton of fanboy hubbub, either. Grievous is stronger than 99% of the PT Jedi, same as Maul.
Solo could possibly knows more of the Force than anybody.
He had that 5 year sojourn to discover how other cultures use the Force.
He was trained by the Jedi.
He was trained some by Lumiya.
He survived a duel with Grand Master Skywalker.
Maul was defeated by Padawan Kenobi.
Obi Wan was good, but he was no Master.
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i can concur with your opinion of jacen.... Though i still would like to point out he gets his butt kicked in EVERY BOOK. He did learn a lot. (but we don't know what) during his 5 years. He was trained a bit by Lumiya, but mostly just in the sacrifice way. She kept talking about his "sacrifice" and so on. He did survive a duel with Grand Master Skywalker, but he wouldn't have if Luke had wanted him dead. Luke had just broken Jacen's gauntlet, and Jacen knew he was beaten (that's in the book) BEFORE Ben ever stuck the dagger in him. Jacen was beaten by luke, one on one, on his own turf, and the JGM let him go. That's a fact. It was to keep Ben from going to the darkside. In fact, Luke has had several opportunities to kill Jacen, and passed on each one.
1. When luke immobilized Jacen on the Solo prior to the Jedi leaving the GA. Jacen was helpless. It says in the novel, that he was using all of his strength to break free, and he couldn't move a finger. THAT shows you how close to Luke's level he actually was.
2. In the Stealth X's, prior to the use of Centerpoint Station, Luke had jacen, jacen knew it, but Luke let him go because of the child in the ship. Jacen was furious at luke for using Alana against him, but in truth, Luke was using the homing device that Jacen, who apparently never changes his clothes (lol) still had on.
3. When he could have killed him in the duel on the Solo, but left him for fear of Ben going to the darkside.
4. Prior to the battle over Fondor, when luke could have killed Jacen as easily as tricking him into believing ships were everywhere. But continued to try to talk him away from the dark. (is it just me, or is Luke getting stupider... lol)
WAITT.... WAY off topic, but i just had a thought. What if Luke's legacy is to turn Jacen back to the light?????? CRAP. we know luke has the ability to kill bad guys. No biggie there, but what if, at the end, Luke turns Jacen back..... THAT would make it a legacy, since it is the same thing he did for his father. That would suck. whiney jacen need to die, IMO...
back on topic:
One more jab at jacen: Caedus was stalemated by Mara. Even beaten if you consider him using ben's face against her as a dirty trick (which i can't help thinking of it as) Mara was the emperors hand. A person with a small amount of force potential, used as his assassin. Maul was his chosen apprentice, which do you think is better? i'd go with the apprentice myself.
To defend Maul. In his entire star wars career, he has one bad moment. Literally ONE SECOND where he freezes, for some stupid reason and gets cut in half, very unlogical. He just defeated one of the greatest bladesmiths in the Jedi order in Qui Gonn, he defeated an enraged Obi-Wan, who, if you remember, was actually a Jedi KNIGHT, NOT a padawan. b/c Qui Gonn had declared him a knight before leaving coruscant the last time. and for some reason froze when obi-wan jumped out of the pit. makes no sense. Otherwise, he was flawless, killing every target assigned to him. I'm no maul fanboy, not at all, but i still think he is better than jacen, who is yet to win anything, and seems terribly overhyped by a bunch of authors desperate to make SOMETHING, SOMEWHERE near to the monster they have created in NJO Luke.
truejedi-tou are right about, as far as I can tell, everthing.
To be honest, as a character, I prefer Maul.
Solo makes me, for the first time, want the "good" guys to win.
That killing Mara with poison just pissed me off.
She was my favorite female character.
Jacen SHOULD die.
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Everyone keeps bringing up Kenobi defeating Maul.. but Maul really defeated him and the Qui Gonn. Kenobi just surprised him, and it was obvious that he was stronger than either of them, so they needed the plot to aid Obi wan.
I completely agree with you, Maul did outduel the duo and was controlling the majority of (something that Qui-gon realized early on) the fight and in the jedi vs sith guide Obiwan said that even when he was using the darkside Maul was feeding on it to outduel him. Maul lost due to him being over confident certainly not lack of skill.
Last edited by Elite Hunter on Apr 23rd, 2008 at 10:38 PM
Yep, and because of it, we don't really know Mauls true power, since the only thing he did was beat a Jedi master and a Jedi knight, which obviously makes him powerful, but how powerful?
but maul was LOOSING the saber lock which is why he employed a force push so.......i'd say the jury is still out on whether or not maul actually beat obi wan.
and i don't give maul that much credit for killing qui-gon, sure qui was renowned but im sure he was PAST HIS PRIME, so i would equate maul beating quigon to maul beating, the OT yoda.
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Why do you think Qui-gonn was past his prime? To me, he seemed to be IN his prime. A good age, not yet slow, but he had had time to learn much.
And umm.. Maul WON the saber lock. Obi-wan was pushed back first by Maul overpowering him in the saber lock, and THEN he pushed Obi with the force. See for yourself: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bPLXwrj7...feature=related
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Apr 21st, 2008 10:13 PM
