I know that i broke the three or below rule, but it says within reasonable exceptions, and i couldnt deside who was better, bane or nihilus. So here it is.
RULES:
1. No fanboys. If you find yourself biased towards one of the characters in this fight, dont even post.
2. No closing this thread. AT ALL
3. State why whoever wins wins.
Luke goes down hard. Yoda was the most powerful jedi prior to Luke existence. Nihilus is strong in the force and arguably second to Sids. as far as sith go. Bane in the orbalisks is a tough beat in lightsaber combat. And DE Sidious alone can put a fight. Luke at best could take one or two of them with him but that seems to be a stretch almost.
Grand Master Skywalker is promptly crushed into the ground. Though he is arguably the most powerful personage to ever grace the mythos, he is facing two of his peers (Nihilus and Sidious) and two alarmingly powerful Force users and duelists in the form of Yoda and Bane.
Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
Luke loses. Badly.
Please... could you possibly change this thread, or at least clarify on the incarnations of the characters? Thanks ^^. Because DE Sidious could put up a tough fight against Luke- saber-wise, he actually might be slightly superior, but Luke, then again, is the simple incarnation of light side godliness and being overpowered.
ROTS Sidious is the strongest sith lord in history. IN HISTORY. That includes Krayt and Caedus later on... which... err... makes no sense, because Caedus was almost as powerful as Luke, but Luke should generally beat ROTS Sidious... oh hell.
Yoda- one of the best fighters in the history of the galaxy, an extremely potent Jedi with extreme lightsaber skills equal to ROTS Sidious' (arguable) and extremely powerful usage of the force. He has extreme experience, and, after Luke, is the strongest Jedi in history.
Nihilus has powerful force skills, but other than his drain- which Luke could probably somehow destroy by some weird crap. Other than that, he's an unimpressive Sith Lord with barely decent lightsaber skills.
Bane is probably the second strongest Sith Lord after Sidious, and is extremely skilled in lighysaber combat and in the dark side of the force.
Is Sidious allowed to Force Storm Luke and kill him instantly? Or is it ROTS Sidious?
Anyway... I'm not in debating mood at the moment (might change soon, tho ^^) but ROTS Yoda and ROTS Sidious together would probably beat Luke.
Personally, I feel that Luke is the strongest ever because of his insane force powers- his saber skills, while good, aren't something well beyond everything that we've seen. Bane, Yoda, and Sidious can all put a VERY good lightsaber fight against him alone and can possibly beat him in exclusively lightsabers.
So... is it DE Sidious or other Sidious? Anyway, Luke loses.
No need to be absurd or illogical; the statement that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in history does not apply to his successors unless the statement is made during or after their reign. As for him being superior to Luke Skywalker in lightsaber combat, a much better argument would be made for Force mastery.
Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
Personally, I believe that Sidious' lightsaber skills- contrary to common opinion- will prove to be more of a real threat to Luke.
Oh, and by the way, if I was incorrect about him being stronger than his successors... well, in NEC- Where he is stated as the strongest Sith Lord- it reached up to the time of the New Jedi Order, meaning Caedus and Luke. But, if I misunderstood, then I admit my mistake.
Luke's lightsaber skills were impressive, indeed, but it did not make him the strongest person in history. He did not show anything beyond anything that we've seen in lightsaber combat. He was capable of striking fast and beating Yuuzhan Vong. Impressive, of coruse, but his force abilites are far more impressive than that- also, I did not say necessarily superior, but rather possibly have a slight advantage in that.
Sidious, by DE, completely pwned DE Luke when it was a fair fight; of course NJO Luke is a lot more powerful than DE Luke, but I doubt that he's reached the point that he can overcome the person who beat him in two blows when he was already a Jedi Master. Sure, Force Storm is good, but Luke might be able to, once again, defeat Sidious' control of it- this time possibly alone because of his increased power- so Sidious' best chance would be to leap at Luke and fight him in lightsabers.
Luke, however, is ultimately stronger because of his raw force power, mastery of the light side, numerous knowledge of techniques, etc...
ROTS Sidious' lightsaber skills aren't that much worse than DE Sidious'- as he IS described in the novel as a blur of speed and such- but is ultimately weaker than Luke.
By the way... a more interesting way to write this thread is add Caedus to Luke's team ^^. It'll actually give him a chance...
this could go either way but if i may make a case for luke, thank you.
1) due to the whole "rule of two" thing, bane, siddious, and nilihus would have crappy lightsaber teamwork together.
2) the only real threat here is siddious,
if njo luke far surpasses DE siddious, then he is way way way stronger than the other two sith who are said to be weaker than siddious who is stated to be the strongest.
3) yoda is a semi threat but he stalemated a rots siddious and luke beat a de siddious (with help from his sister of course).
4) luke surpasses the most powerful sith, and the greatest enemy the darkness has ever known.
5) fight summary
luke makes short work of nillihus with a quick beheading, then while moving at lightening speed, he pulls down yoda's trousers which distracts yoda long enough for luke to duel siddious down to a pulp. bane force pushes luke which causes him to lose balance, and hit a wall. luke gets up, only to find that yoda has launhed at him and he dodges yoda's blade by a mere centimetre. luke quickly recoils and beheads yoda. bane engages luke in a 15 second , djem so brawl in which bane find himself tiring out, but luke is not at 100% either. noticing that bane's orbalisk protect him, luke fires his most fierce force lightening, bringing bane sizzling to his knees. luke uses force judgment to separate bane from the force. bane dies in a master kavarian way.
game over
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I didn't disagree. But in all practicality, one doesn't have to be able to defeat someone in order to be a threat to him or her.
Skywalker isn't a Sith, the title doesn't apply to him in any aspect. Caedus is a Sith, but he hasn't demonstrated any unique feat that would make one believe that he is more powerful than the Emperor.
Skywalker's lightsaber skills were so proficient that he was capable of appearing to be wielding over a dozen blades -- this seen through the eyes of Jaina and Jacen Solo -- who are uniquely powerful and trained swordsmen and Jedi. I never said that his Force prowess was inferior or superior to Sidious's own, but a better argument for Sidious could be made in regards to Force mastery, as the Emperor spent decades mastering the Force to a greater extent than any other individual in the mythos.
Skywalker circa Dark Empire was very powerful and very accomplished, but this was mostly through the result of unique aptitude and on-the-job-training, rather than dedicated study and years of practice. His expertise and refinement would have increased beyond comprehension with swordsmanship.
While Skywalker has the clear advantage in raw power and natural affinity, Darth Sidious is miles his superior in terms of Force knowledge and study. One could make an argument that he has a more complete understanding of the light side and Jedi doctrine than Skywalker himself.
Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
This is the thing with these multiple-participant lightsaber duels; it would seem that many people would not work well with each other, so it actually simply comes down to saying if the four combined are stronger than NJO Luke. So it happens that one of them is close to him, and the three other can also pull off a great fight against him, too.
NJO Luke does not necessarily far surpass Sidious; sure, he's more powerful, but as I've said... leave them with just their sabers, and it could possibly go either way.
Yoda a semi threat? Yoda is extremely powerful, as is Sidious; both are, before Luke's time, the strongest of their kind (the Jedi and Sith) and are hugely proficient duelists with extreme levels of experience and force mastery. Bane is a very potent saber duelist, has his armor and Nihilus can do weird Force Drain thing.
Accurate, but not by a lot. And remember, they're teaming up here ^^.
I completely and utterly disagree. While Nihilus will probably fall quickly, Sidious, Yoda, and Bane alone would be a significant threat to Luke saber-wise; all are extremely fast and powerful in the force. There won't be a 15 second fight here, and Luke won't duel Sidious to a pulp. Only chance Luke has is to try to fry them with Electric Judgement and other uber force skills, but then again... they're all extremely powerful, and Sidious can probably conjure up more potent lightning than Luke due to lightning being a natural tool of the dark side.
Luke finds himself, after killing Nihilus, quickly overwhelmed in a saberduel and will die a quick and satisfying death.
To Gideon: If I said Sidous > Luke, TYPO, I meant that he was stronger than Caedus ^^. Also... Luke uses Djem So, it's about power, not speed- Sidious is probably the weaker, but faster swordsman. And other than that I agree with everything you said.
Last edited by Master Crimzon on May 9th, 2008 at 09:40 PM
How is he even going to kill Nihilus? That's a bold and unsupported statement at best, considering the guy's telekinesis was enough to rip a starship out of a gravity well. Not to mention that he fact that he eats the life energy of planets for lunch...
Because, Mark Hamill portrayed Luke Skywalker, went on to portray the Joker, who is now being portrayed by the great, late Mr. Ledger. Common sense, narb.
Well if this Mark Hamill vs. the four, he winz. Duh. But it's a Luke Skywalker written by the likes of Troy Denning and the Traviss *****, so PIS makes him think he's shitting a brick and he dies.
By the way, Troy Denning said that Luke is intentionally being underwritten, "all uniquely powerful characters suffer from deus ex machina" since heroes are supposed to face "overwhelming odds and challenges". One supposes that's why Luke has been put to the background... perhaps they can work on a feasible explanation next time.
I figured his favorite nephew dying, his other nephew turning evil, half the Jedi Order getting WTFpwned, and said evil nephew killing his wife and torturing his son were "odds" enough.
Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
As Luke has the greatest light-side powers in history, was capable of (with help) cutting off the strongest Sith Lord from the force temporarily, and has saber skills well beyond Nihilus', I really do believe he could last long enough to kill Nihilus.
Though I may be wrong; Nihilus is one extremely unknown character. We can't really say much about him since so little is known of him... shame. He had potential to be a great character.
And it's all possible that Luke will be cut into pieces before he gets to Nihilus.
FER TEA!!
May 9th, 2008 08:44 PM
