Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
Awesome thread. Best one of your insane streak of threads, by far.
I'll analyze it, depending on the matchup:
Sidious vs. Yoda- Sidious and Yoda are equals. George Lucas supports this. In terms of abilities with the force, they are dead equals, although other than that, both have their advantages. Namely the fact that Yoda is a more seasoned and experienced combatant, and will therefore be a more efficient and calculated fighter, while Sidious is more intelligent and has a considerably superior arsenal of offensive weapons, while Yoda has only his formidable TK to match. Since this is an empty plain, Sidious doesn't have many things to use to his disposal, so his superior intelligent and combat tactics will be made redunant. This fight can go either way, or go endlessly on.
Bane vs. Mace- Could, once again, go either way, although this- unlike Yoda vs. Sidious- cannot go on forever. Bane certainly has more than an edge in a force fight- his dark side abilities and knowledge rival Sidious', although they are not quite on his level. His force lightning is incredibly potent- however, Mace has displayed the ability to block Sidious' lightning from an extremely close-range- granted, he was quickly losing and would've died if it wasn't for Sidious' faking of his weakness, but being able to hold it off temporarily is highly impressive, too. His TK abilities are also incredibly useful. In a lightsaber duel, I believe Mace has the edge- he can move so fast one sees multiple blades, and has the advantage of benefiting from Bane's dark side-empowered attributes, like he copied Sidious' otherwise superior speed- this will allow him to match Bane blow-to-blow, allowing him to potentially be on the defensive and pull a victory like the one he did to Sidious- in other words, disarm him or destroy his weapon. If that happens- Bane can possibly defeat Windu in a force fight, but I'm hardly certain, as Mace will now go directly for the kill rather than wait. Overall, I'm giving Mace a slight edge in this fight, unless Bane traps him in a force fight, where he will win. Mace helps Yoda and together they curbstomp Sidious. Either that, or Bane wins and Yoda gets curbstomped.
Second matchup:
Sidious vs. Mace- Could go either way, however- I'm giving a slight edge to Sidious here. Granted, in a lightsaber duel, Mace has an excellent chance, but Sidious has a shot, too- it apparently takes time for one to sink into Vaapad, and in that time- seeing as Sidious will not have to deal with some goons beforehand- Sidious' speed and ferocity can possibly overwhelm Windu. Without being able to copy Sidious' speed immediately, he won't be able to match him blow-to-blow as Sidious had displayed better speed and agility than an unaided Mace- however, if Mace somehow manages to get away and sink into Vaapad, I can see him taking a lightsaber duel. Sidious still has a shot, but it's far smaller. However, seeing as Sidious has a tendency to resort to a force fight if he doesn't have a distinct advantage in a lightsaber duel- as viewed by his fight with Yoda- he might leap away and defeat Mace with a gout of lightning. Or he might not- if he doesn't, Mace will probably take the lightsaber duel and kill Sidious. However, there are two circumstances where Sidious would win- if he manages to defeat him in a short lightsaber duel, or gets away and destroys him with the force. Mace has one circumstance when he can win- a prolonged lightsaber duel. Sidious has a slight edge- he's gonna take this fight, I'd say, 6/10 times.
Bane vs. Yoda- Yoda will most probably win. He is considerably more mobile and slightly faster than Bane, and managed to hold off Sidious' lightning quite impressively- he was even forcing it back on him. I'd assume Bane's lightning is slightly inferior to Sidious'- if it is indeed so, Yoda could certainly take a force fight by reflecting Bane's lightning back at him- and you know what happens to orbalisks if they get hit by lightning, no? In a lightsaber duel, Bane has more of a chance, seeing as his powerful blows may be able to damage Yoda in one form or another- however, Yoda's superior agility and mobility may cause Bane to overextent himself, in one form or another- if so, Yoda will decapacitate him quickly. I believe Yoda is slightly superior to Bane in a lightsaber duel- but Bane still has an excellent chance. All-out- I'm leaning towards Yoda, but Bane is certainly capable of winning.}
Sidious vs. Yoda. Yoda can't close the distance fast enough, most probably- his best chances are in a lightsaber duel, and even that can go either way. Sidious launches lightning at Yoda- disarming him and possibly even destroying his lightsaber. Yoda, weaponless, doesn't stand a chance against Sidious unless he brings a mountain on top of his head- or somehow reflects his lightning back at him. Which won't happen, because Sidious hadly already displayed the ability to prevent it from happening- in other words, Yoda is knocked back and Lord Sidious finishes him with a lightsaber. Or he runs away, like he did in RotS. Or, if Sidious decides to engage in a lightsaber duel with Yoda, we're trapped, once again, in the fight lasting on for eternity. Blergh.
In other words, I see the Jedi barely taking it in matchup 1 and the same applying for the Sith in matchup 2. But either way, it'll be an extremely difficult fight for all parties.
Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
And the RotS novel implies that Sidious was dominating Yoda in their duel- the script was made specifically for the movie. In other words, scenes that don't appear in the movie but in the script aren't canon- the script wasn't publically published. The movie was. And nowhere does it show Sidious being disarmed- if he had been, wouldn't GL want to show us that important point of the fight? It's plausible Yoda disarmed Sidious in their duel- however, both had displayed some superiorty over the other in the duel. Sidious maintained a steady offensive through it, while Yoda broke all of the saber locks and ran circles around Sidious (due to his style). However, I'd venture that, all in all, they are equals here.
That script also depicts Yoda kicking Palpatine's ass all over the Senate arena, disarming him, "lulzpwning" him with his own Force lightning, and then letting him go for no reason. The script's version of the duel screams "NON CANON!" to new decible levels. Though, to be honest, it wouldn't surprise me that Yoda did legitimately disarm the Emperor, since Palpatine hadn't touched a lightsaber in many, many moons. Not that it matters, since Palpatine rather effortlessly disarmed Yoda as well.
Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
Didn't GL say that the script was too biased towards Yoda, and the novel too biased towards Sidious?
The script depicted Yoda as superior- the novel depicted Sidious as superior. The movie depicted them as equals- and they, canonically, are.
Gideon, the true governing factor in lightsaber combat for the likes of Yoda and Sidious is force attunement, ability, and attributes. Sidious had only increased in terms of force prowess from TPM to RotS- it's logical to assume that while he might have decreased in the technical side of swordsmanship- something he rarely paid importance too- he could increase in the three factors I mentioned above.
But so would have Yoda. Like I said, whether or not he was disarmed in a lightsaber duel doesn't matter, as Sidious was still capable of relieving Yoda of his own lightsaber without any real effort.
He'd be compensating for his body's massive deterioration though, so his increased Force mastery doesn't really manifest in his swordsmanship until DE, when he has a clone body at the peak of its physical fitness.
Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
True- however, when you see the speeds he showed us in his RotS incarnations... yeah. Being physically frail and ravaged makes that all the more impressive.
I said the likes of Yoda and Sidious- they both fight in a similar manner, using force-based acrobatics, speed, and reflexes more than most people. For example, I'll give you the perfect anti-thesis to that- Count Dooku. He's amazingly skilled, gifted, and refined- I'd argue that even more so than Sidious and Yoda. But when you see the way he fights- it relies on the force on a minimal manner compared to the above mentioned two, relying purely on his skill with a blade and using his physical conditioning and the force to get over his age. What is superior? Well, I think that as Anakin displayed, prowess and attunement in the force trumps technical skill, eventually.
Yoda's nine hundred years old, and Sidious is like a crack whore - he's basically abused the Force to the point that he's wrecked his body. Sithisis confirms that 'the face of Palpatine' is just a mask to conceal his true visage, so we know the true extent of the damages his practices have inflicted upon him. Freedon Nadd suffered the same way, although Bane remarked that he had a warrior's physique, but Palpatine is decidedly underwhelming in build, so he really needs the Force-boost to compete with or defeat most opponents.
Dooku, on the other hand, is an eighty-three year-old man who has been a Sith for less than thirteen years, and uses his powers in moderation compared to the above two. He also retains the physical condition of a man half his age, so someone in their early forties, which is absolutely ridiculous, and means that even without the Force he's superior to Yoda and Palpatine in every physical manner. Then there's his whole ideology on combat, which basically revolves around being a ruthless gentleman; use only one lightsaber, don't get prosthetics, and fight with gallantry and virtue.
Anakin of course is unique. "The strongest and fastest Jedi of his generation" coupled with the greatest Force potential ever, bar none, and an impressive grasp of the lightsaber means he's a force to be reckoned with, or "worth a brigade of firepower in his own right," as the novel puts it.
Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Bringing forth the apocalypse
I agree with you on every point. It's rather amazing to see a small, disfigured old man and weird, wrinkled, and green alien suddenly become incredibly powerful in combat. That being said, unlike some, I'm a huge fan of seeing them using a lightsaber.
Jun 30th, 2008 06:39 PM
