I take it you're thinking Grievous with his cough? I'd say Kenobi then. Though he's not yet the Soresu master he will be, I don't see him losing to a Grievous with just one saber.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Grievous. AOTC Kenobi didn't have nearly as much experience or skill as he did in ROTS. Even though Grievous only has one saber, it doesn't mean his skill wouldn't remain the same. Or his speed. Or his strength.
I'm not sure how much Mace's grip really hindered him. He can still make five strikes per second (with a single blade), if we follow the ROTS novelization--Kenobi gets minced.
__________________
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Drinking gasoline. Pissing napalm.
Erm...let me specify. "Kenobi does decently against Count Dooku considering the circumstances."
Moreover, GG wasn't much more of a challenge to Dooku than Kenobi was. And this battle is going to be GG after being Force Crushed, with only one saber.
It wasn't even decent, he was being dealt a hand of pure mockery.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Yes I do. I still think Kenobi could pull off a win here.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
How, exactly? I believe Dooku was the first lightsaber-wielding opponent he'd faced since Maul. I'm not even sure he Kenobi mastered Soresu by AOTC or, at the very least, he doesn't even have the practical knowledge on how to apply it in lightsaber-to-lightsaber confrontations. The Fight Saber article in SW Insider #62 says that Obi-Wan and Anakin weren't familiar with the "special requirements" of saber combat, which is why Dooku casually pwns them.
It also says that Makashi was useful in that situation; a form Grievous was personally trained in by Dooku himself. Combined with the twenty Jedi he's fought and killed by the time of ROTS, and he's got some great advantages.
The Clone Wars benefited the Jedi more than most people would think. By AOTC, I wouldn't expect him to be able to keep Grievous at bay. Remember, even with a single blade he is still able to perform five strikes a second here. Even using the Force to aid him, he is still slower than Grievous. Even ROTS Obi-Wan was unnerved by his reflexes initially, which doesn't bode well for his AOTC incarnation following from what the Fight Saber article says about his lack of blade-to-blade combat experience.
And I don't think Mace's force crush made him horribly worse. Since Mace himself acknowledged that he was still deadly.
Oh, and Dooku was also "hard-pressed" to beat Grievous on occasions. Obi-Wan was hard-pressed trying to not be beheaded by Dooku toying with him.
__________________
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
Last edited by Advent on Sep 14th, 2008 at 12:25 AM
Kenobi was a student of Ataru when he first fought Dooku. Dooku says as much in their ROTS duel. He in fact, fights kenobi expecting an Ataru sort of move, and is shocked to find out that kenobi was just playing him, and was actually now a master of soresu. So that should settle that.
As far as the duel? Kenobi still has the force. I pick kenobi. This is another area where star wars doesn't add up. There are several sources that state that a non-force user can never stand against a force-user in hand to hand combat, and then you have someone like grievous... and it just doesn't add up, but that's okay. I'll go with those quotes in this one and pick obi-wan.
Err, what? Kenobi switched to Soresu after Qui-Gon's death TPM. He felt the lack of defense that comes with Ataru caused his death. I thought this was established fact, can you show me otherwise please?
Kenobi doesn't say anything about Ataru in ROTS. How could he master Soresu in three years? Are you feeling alright, truejedi?
__________________
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
Dooku certainly didn't know that Kenobi knew Soresu in ROTS, right up until near the end (unless it says otherwise in AOTC novel? i haven't read that one)
here is the quote from ROTS, showing the Dooku though Obi-Wan was practicing Ataro, and considering he had fought him before, wouldnt' he get that knowledge from their first fight?
Pg. 72: "Kenobi's Master had been Qui-Gon Jinn, Dooku's own Padawan; Dooku had fenced Qui_Gon thousands of times, and he knew every weakness of the Ataro form, with its ridiculous acrobatics. He drove a series of flashing thrusts towared Kenobi's legs to draw the Jedi Master into a flipping overhead leap so that Dooku could burn through his spine from kidneys' to shoulder blades, and this image, this plan, was so clear in Dooku's mind that he almost failed to notice that Kenobi met every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly blaanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necassary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper, and when dooku felt Skywalker regain his feet and stride once more toward his back, he finally registered the source of that blinding defenseive velocity Kenobi had used a moment ago, and only then, bleatedly, did he understand that Kenobi's Ataro and SHii-Cho had been plays, as well. kenobi had become a master of Soresu.
So Dooku clearly did not know kenobi knew soresu before their fight in ROTS. So Kenobi would not have been using it in AOTC. Certainly not a master of it.
That's a fair point, but Dooku not realizing that Kenobi was a master of Soresu rather than an Ataru practitioner isn't really proof he didn't use Form II in AOTC. Dooku hadn't faced him in three years, so perhaps he thought he switched to Ataru. I can't say for sure, but from The Hive, chapter 2, which is a year after the Battle of Geonosis:
"It was better to stay in the realm of Form III, the lightsaber combat he had practiced for so long. It was better, and no less effective, for one who understood that defense and attack were two sides of the same coin."
The Fight Saber article also says that he took up a "dedication to Form III after the death of Qui-Gon Jinn".
__________________
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
fair point. I had forgotten about the quote about switching after the death of qui gonn jinn when i originally posted. Seems like he knew parts of about 3 forms.
For the record, I was using a very simplistic style of thinking. ROTS Kenobi>>>ROTS Grievous with four sabers---AOTC Kenobi>ROTS Grievous with one saber. I still think he could pull off a 6/10 ratio.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Sep 13th, 2008 03:41 PM
