Marek definitely wins if he's allowed the Force, but Qui-Gon could pull off a win in the sabers.
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In terms of lightsaber combat, Starkiller most probably defeats Qui-Gon. He was able to defeat the likes of Shaak Ti, and did give Vader a hard time until he destroyed him with the Force. Everything indicates he has the upper hand in every way.
Yeah, but how does Qui-Gon compare to Shaak Ti and Vader in saber abilities?
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My point is, Shaak Ti could be considered Qui-Gon's equal (or maybe even more skilled) in terms of saber combat, let alone Vader. I'm not trying to use A > B > C logic here, I'm saying that if Marek was able to defeat someone way more potent than Qui-Gon, and, therefore, with more skills and abilities to use against him, it's just logical to assume he would be able to defeat a lesser opponent. The situation's just that simple. There are no Ifs or Hows, there is no 'the setting's an important factor' or that sort of excuses, I simply consider Marek to be Qui-Gon's superior in every combat situation.
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Last edited by Col. Valerian on Sep 28th, 2008 at 07:24 AM
In sabers? I'd say Jin.
Force? Marek.
All out? It's more of a draw for me. Although Marek's force powers would tip the scale over Jin's lightsaber mastery.
Qui Gon has different skills and abilities than Shaak Ti and so would pose a different challenge.
Qui-Gon was incredibly skilled, on the level of Anoon Bondra, who is TEH ROCKZORS in saber skills. He was able to defeat Mace Windu, and is one of the order's best. It might be biased, but I don't want to call some upstart like Starkiller his superior. I'm trying to avoid a feat war (since I have no source material for Qui-Gon) but I'd be willing to place him above Marek in sabers, and his greater experience might just take the All Out too.
I said skills didn't I? Its not like I said saber ability. If I was wrong in my estimation of where the distinction was, I'm sorry. I'll be sure to use the right wording in the future. Skills means overall ability, and technical ability is just that. Noted.
As for the rest, I wasn't arguing Force aptitude. In fact, I never said a word about the Force.
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Well, for the most part I Was just being an ******* because I'm in a bad mood.
Aside from that, though, there is a disinction.
A man who builds pistols for a living has great technical skill with the pistol in question, he probably knows how to assemble one quickly, knows the recoil, etc. He knows the gun like the back of his hand. That doesn't mean that he can whoop a police officer's ass in a gun fight, though.
My main point is that having technical skills with a weapon, while impressive, doesn't hold an extreme amount of water in a combat situation... not trying to diss Anoon though. I'm sure he's a badass in his own right.
I know you didn't, but my point is that in all-out you can use the force to, and that is why Galen will win 10/10 all-out. Qui-Gon won't even be able to engage Galen in a true saber duel before he gets crushed with the force. Aside from that even if Qui-Gon does have superior dueling ability, it is marginal. That alone won't help him compensate for the gross disinction between their levels of force abilities.
Yeah, I know. I just got here in time for the 'skill vs. ability' discussion/flamewar, so I know the distinction. I was just not communicating very clearly.
Look at Obi-Wan. Anakin outclassed him in terms of Force power, but he still managed to beat him. Superior dueling ability is capable of tipping the scales. That said, I agree that Marek is too much for Qui-Gon. I just don't like it.
No, I mean when Gideon was B****ing someone out because they didn't agree with his interpretation of skills/ability. This was a few months ago.
You're cool. I have yet to see you come remotely close to flaming anybody.
He stalemated him in a force push contest. Very different. He was able to use his superior mastery to win a contest of skill. (Force push has to be learned, its not instinctive) Anakin was using the Force instinctively to make himself faster throughout the duel, which is what I was referring to. He is more powerful in the Force, and it showed.
Sep 27th, 2008 03:00 AM
