Registered: May 2010
Location: No clue. Looks.... Blue?
I could possibly see Jinn doing it due to some random quotes floating for him, but Luke? No. Savage is much too strong for him, with a better Force mastery and with a weapon Luke is entirely unfamiliar with. As shown in PoD by Kas'im, being unfamiliar with a weapon can often prove fatal.
I think Savage could take this. Luke would be a weak link due to his inexperience and lack of teamwork with Jinn. Not to mention Opress has greater TK feats.
Don't try to bring up lack of experience. He had 4 years of wartime experience, was trained by Yoda and briefly by Kenobi, studied Vaders style in the midst of combat, and self-trained himself from Kenobi's journals. He's also had several encounters with a Sith Lord and was able to escape or defeat him every time.
And what does Savage have? Two days of training from Dooku? A month of wartime experience? Two encounters with a Sith Lord, only surviving one? Was noted as dumb and sloppy? All Savage has going for him in this competition is physical might and natural affinity with the force.
And the latter doesnt even help him here! As Luke has vastly superior affinity with the force, and obviously outclasses him when it comes to skill, experience, speed, and intellect. Savages strength isn't going to have him defeat Luke's ROTJ incarnation. Perhaps ESB Luke.
Qui-Gon had over 50 years of quality training from the same guy who Savage got 2 days of training from, and has definite superior battle experience, and skill/experience, as well as intellect. Savage has a better chance against Jinn, with both superior Force Power and Strength Under his belt, it would be closer, but I would still go with Jinn.
I stick to my former post: Either person on the team solos, with difficulty. Together, Savages chances are slim. Perhaps if he goes ultimate rage mode he wins... Seriously guys, this dude was out dueled in FIVE SECONDS by Pre-Vizsla.
Savage is overrated. With Maul by his side he is formidable, but otherwise his only attribute that kept him from getting killed was his extreme tank-affinity. Luke has gone up against similar tankness (Vader anyone?) and while he is unfamiliar to the staff, he is familiar with the Djem So style. Don't underestimate a Skywalker.
__________________
Last edited by NewGuy01 on Mar 22nd, 2013 at 08:59 AM
Fair enough, Savage does have difficult competition. Still, Luke's experience as a jedi is nothing compared to what the PT jedi got. He himself acknowledged that his training was rushed and incomplete. Opress TKed a ship, a much better feat than Jinn or ROTJ Luke. It definitely plays a factor if Opress chooses to blast one away and take them one on one.
Savage has defeated 2 Council Memebers. Adi Gallia (Revival) and Plo Koon (Sith Hunters). He's also battered Ventress. And it was confirmed by Dave Filoni that his performance against Sidious was greater than Tiin/Kolar/Fisto's.
So he's above the majority of Council Members and >/= Ventress.
So I really don't for the life off me see how Qui-Gon or ROTJ Luke are going to solo this unless you think they are both above Ventress and the majority of Council Members.
Luke did very well in his Lightsaber fight against Vader, but he never defeated him before going into an extraordinary rage enhanced state. And Opress isn't going to hold back on his Force TK like Vader did.
That was an act. In a serious fight Opress casually force chokes Death Watch warriors.
Last edited by Darth Thor on Mar 22nd, 2013 at 12:47 PM
Registered: May 2010
Location: No clue. Looks.... Blue?
4 years of wartime experience as a pilot. Not a Jedi.
Trained by Yoda for a couple months, still had trouble with basic TK.
Beat a holding-back Vader while utilizing the Dark Side.
Even I can analyze a style during a fight. I have actually done it. Imitating the style is whats hard. And he did not do that. He swung his saber like a baseball bat.
Savage defeated Gallia, however, he won his fight with Plo Koon through cheapshot. I don't think he would have won a fair battle.
He beat Ventress--Who was a devoted Jar'Kai user while she had a single lightsaber. Good job. She would have won with two blades.
True that he wont' hold back TK--But who's to say that he could casually break through Force Shields? I mean sure, he did it once, but that was in a, as you mentioned, extraordinary rage enhanced state.
1. Fair enough I suppose... But it's not like Savage had much experience at all either, and I'm sure Luke has had more groundfights as of ROTJ then Savage by far.
2. Trained by Yoda for a couple months vs Trained by Dooku for 2 days.
3. Even if Vader was holding back his Force Attacks, and lethal blade strikes, it's not like he was diving down the stairs. Luke was battering him in their lightsaber duel. While if Vader were serious and intent on killing Skywalker, it would be a closer duel.
Exactly my point. While Vader perhaps wasn't going for the kill against Skywalker, it is illogical to say they weren't on the same level with a blade, as he still was kicked down the stairs, overall beaten up, and battered hard when Luke gave into his rage. It's evident that their skills with a lightsaber are on par--Vader moderately superior. And with the Force, he was a Skywalker, guys. It's hinted that at the time of ROTJ, he was a fully trained Jedi Knight, possibly even capable of passing the X-Wing trial that he had failed before.
I'd put ROTJ Luke around par with Ki-Adi Mundi or Darth Maul shortly before TPM.
It wasn't a cheap shot at all. It was a physical attack which is Opress's main advantage over Jedi in Saber combat. Even if he didn't have a mask to rip off, you just don't want to be hit in the face by Opress.
And "You don't think" he would have won a fair battle. Please enlighten me how exactly it wasn't a fair battle when it was the Jedi who were hunting the Sith and the Sith who were outnumbered?
Which is the only reason I didn't flat out say that Opress >> Ventress. I said Opress >/=Ventress.
Fact is Ventress is trained by Count Dooku in Makashi so should also be completely competent with 1 Blade.
Fact is Opress never even used his superior Force Powers on Ventress.
Again your making your thinking facts. There's nothing to suggest that at all.
He sent Kenobi and Skywalker flying before his rage boost on Toydaria. He's also sent Adi Gallia flying.
And his Force feats are simply far superior to the likes of Kenobi and Ventress. Let alone Qui-Gon and ROTJ Luke.
The Jedi Craft he threw, the casual handling of Death Watch warriors with his TK, (Kenobi never handled them with such ease), the breaking out of prision with a mean Force Wave e.t.c.
He lack skill in using his force powers to say precisely levitate Obi-Wan the way Maul did, but he sure has the raw power.
He had very little training in the Force. But he was from a warrior clan, so he was a trained combatant. And he had his Physical and Force connection enhancment by Mother Talzin which was the true source of his Prowess.
Which is more than enough to be a formidable threat. Grievous for instance was a threat without the aid of the Force. But fact is not onlu can Opress use the force, but his feats in Force TK are beyond the vast majority of Jedi.
You are completely correct. My thoughts that ROTJ Luke could defeat Opress are my own, however, you cannot simply say that Savage could defeat both Qui-Gon and Luke ROTJ, considering their feats, and you cannot say Luke is inexperienced in comparison to Opress.
Registered: May 2010
Location: No clue. Looks.... Blue?
Actually, you could. Oppress, having been trained on Dathomir, would be in a much better starting point for melee combat. Add on his higher physical strength, the fact he has fought Kenobi and Skywalker and won, and his greater Force mastery and Luke is quite literally a farmboy pilot with a lightsaber.
Luke could not get through Vaders defenses until he gave into rage, which gives anybody a power boost. Using that duel is not an accurate representation due to extenuating circumstances.
Jinn lost to TPM Maul, and I think there was someone around here suggesting Oppress=TPM Maul (mostly due to the Force. Maul still owns in sabers)
Qui-Gon Jinn seemed to be very vulnerable to melee attacks--he fell to some mercenary's axe while defending a ship and nearly got sucked out into space. IMO, Savage > TPM Maul, because of his greater strength, his usage of willpower, the way he batters blades out of the way and his TK is immense. If I may, he had a lot more battles than RotJ luke. Luke might be just as easy as Adi Gallia. Savage isn't vader, he's not gonna bring out Luke's rage, he'll just get frustrated and harness his own.
Qui-Gon, in many ways, could get his butt kicked the same way Obi-Wan did. Also, the only style he knows how to use is Ataru.
Luke beat Vader only because of rage. Savage, as I said, will merely harness his own. I see Luke getting pushed over like a scrub while Opress and Jinn solo. Though, Luke would get back up at an appropriate time and Savage has had lots of trouble focusing on two opponents at once. Regardless, I think he wins with lightning-quick reflexes, windmills, physical strength maybe, and TK.
Qui-Gon Jinn (TPM) and Luke Skywalker (ROTJ) vs. Savage Opress (TCWS5)
Mar 22nd, 2013 12:24 AM
