Palpatine used indeed a dark side confusion haze. This is why he blitzed them so easly.
Luke probably dies here even if he scale to Vader. Windu alone can press him. The problem with Luke is that he has no experience fighting multiple enemies so he migh die just because of this even if he is more powerful.
There is also a quote on Starwars.com about Vader being conflicted in ROTJ. And we know conflict can hinder a force user like it happened with Kylo in TFA. Not saying that Vader was necessarly hindered, just a possibility.
Registered: Jan 2020
Location: Chiss Defense Fleet
What are Tinn and Kolar's best feats in canon? Nothing comes to mind for me. Fisto could have probably beaten Grievous, but that is literally his best canon feat. Confusion haze or not, those three are getting merc'd easily by Luke.
Mace would obviously do the best, but Luke's power and skill was stated to be equal to Vader's, so he'd get stomped also.
Registered: Dec 2019
Location: Imperial Throne Room
No. It's an *assumption* that Vader > Mace. It's possible but you can't even say for sure, you can't possibly say that Vader is far above Mace and then you're adding a Grievous level opponent on top of this against a weaker version of Vader being Luke.
Registered: Dec 2019
Location: Imperial Throne Room
What do you mean Anakin raped Dooku easily lol. The first starts off with Anakin and Obi wan being redirected. Then Dooku kicks Anakin and sends Obi flying. Then he struggles against Dooku in a bladelock. It's only once Anakin is enraged that he gets his hands chopped off.
Not sure where you're getting the idea that someone needs to be >> to beat someone.
And I've never seen a canon source label Dooku and Mace as peers so you'll have to show me.
Registered: Dec 2019
Location: Imperial Throne Room
What do you mean 20 seconds. You're forgetting that the fight actually lasts a minute and a half.
And yes I don't see a reason to believe that Yoda's lightsaber skills are superior to Mace's at this time or at the very least not extremely close.
No proof that Sidious intended to be disarmed when he could've just thrown away his saber or deactivated and put it under his robes. So yes you're basically saying that Vader stomps ROTS Sidious.
And lets see here:
Even if you can argue that Vader is superior to Mace you then still have to argue that Vader is superior to Mace and a Grievous level opponent and then you have to argue that Vader is fast enough to deflect four saber blows at once in a tight space, and then you have to argue that a weaker version of Vader, (a guy who has no experience fighting 4 skilled opponents at once, could be slower, obviously is less physically strong and has way less durability). Have fun with that.
Registered: Jan 2020
Location: Chiss Defense Fleet
I'm talking about after Anakin accessed his rage. Once that happened the fight was over in 20 seconds. Without accessing his rage, Anakin was already Dooku's equal as of DD.
But Vader (and therefore Luke) is "light-years" above Dooku.
You could argue that Sidious was just stalling for time so that Anakin could arrive. That was Anakins final Sith test afterall. There is certainly a fair bit of evidence to suggest that Sidious was holding back all around. The same obviously cannot be said in his fight with Yoda.
A Grievous level opponent is less than nothing compared to a Vader level opponent. Fisto would die easily. Tinn and Kolar have literally done nothing (I dont know if they've even been given any wank via accolades in canon) so they'd die even quicker. Fodder is still fodder.
Mace is the toughest opponent obviously, but if Luke is Vader level he's beating Mace decisively.
Registered: Dec 2019
Location: Imperial Throne Room
Sure I agree with your first two parts. But it makes no difference.
Either way you cannot say that Sidious was not legitimately disarmed. And you cannot even prove Vader > Mace. Let alone Vader >> Mace.
Mace Windu is **atleast** enough to keep Luke's full focus.
You're acting like Vader can just one shot someone Grievous level, which is what he'd need to do to survive in such a tiny area, and I see no proof of that. Commander Karbin was enough to make Vader send a ship flying into him, if he was able to quickly dispatch Karbin then he would've done so.
Vader very rarely quickly dispatches opponents, unless they're complete fodder and even then that's typically one on one and this is Luke we're talking about, not Vader.
And you're failing to realise that Luke will have to deflect 4 sabers at once. He's not fast enough to blitz any of them, and 4 sabers is 4 sabers from presumbly 'skilled' opponents. Agen Kolar apparently is a master swordsmen according to the Star Wars Character Encyclopedia. But anyway Luke isn't going to be able to handle four sabers at once when one of them is enough to put pressure on him.
It's just impossible to make that argument without wild assumptions. You're assuming that Luke is >> Mace. You're assuming that a Grievous-level opponent can be dispatched quickly, it's fair enough to believe whatever you want but I see nothing but heavy theory and speculation with no actual evidence for your claims. Right now atleast.
May 18th, 2020 06:06 PM
