__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Honestly, I'm split. In many ways, I still view their battle from ep 6 very similar to rots. The whole theme of the show and how they portray Anakin's weakness is his need for victory blinds him and so long as he feels the need to prove himself, he will always be the learner. Episode 5 of Kenobi drew great parallels between the flashback and how present day, it's clearly still the case. Vader in Kenobi still has a lot to learn.
Even after their duel in episode 6, he's telling Sidious he'll stop at nothing to find him, showing that even after all the events of the Kenobi TV show, he's still blinded by his need for victory. Sidious confirms this when he says something along the lines of how he feels Vader's feelings have clouded his judgement, and he questions if he can let go of the past. It's only when Vader is able to let go of his past that Vader truly swallows Anakin (for the most part until rotj). By ANH, he tells Obi-wan that he's the master - he has finally overcome his weaknesses and will destroy him. To me, THAT is peak Vader.
These weaknesses, coupled with the fact that Kenobi/Vader still know their fighting styles inside and out (Kenobi ep 6 duel clearly shows this), has me believing that Kenobi is still the inferior duelist, but is STILL the master and finds a way to win via taking advantage of Vader's weaknesses. He does this in the physical sense too, as he attacks his central control panel, which was a huge turning point in that duel.
Therefore, I feel Kenobi would still be beat by the likes of Dooku. The REAL question to me is, how would ep 6 Kenobi stack up against rots Kenobi? I for one feel he scales above him, as he was able to defeat a more powerful Vader.
I can still be convinced otherwise, but I feel the underlying themes of the story helped me arrive to my opinion.
I mean, that sounds nice and all but simply not what happened. Kenobi beat Vader through brute force not some clever trick when Vader was blinded by his own hatred. Kenobi simply hurled hundreds of boulders at Vader and Vader was all but helpless before that onslaught.
He got clean shots on Vader 100%, not taking anything away from him. He beat Vader twice now, ****ed him up even more and gave him that nice little scar we see on his head at the end of rotj. There's more than just sheer power/dueling ability that goes into the outcome of sw fights - honestly, it's more about what's driving the story.
If Vader didn't have cybernetics, that would have been no different than punches to the gut. I think Kenobi is smart enough to realize that's a weakness of Vader. They both had their displays of force power in the duel, but in my mind, the control panel was the turning point.
In terms of sheer power and dueling abilities:
OT Vader > Rebels Vader > maybe rebels/ANH obi-wan? >rots Anakin > Dooku > "Kenobi" Obi-wan > rots obi-wan
In the end, Dooku is a true Master of the dark side, and doesn't have the same weaknesses as Vader to exploit. Coupled with the fact Dooku is very familiar with Kenobi's fighting style (canon), I don't think Kenobi would beat Dooku even now.
Last edited by Forschbewithu on Jun 23rd, 2022 at 02:52 PM
^
Wasn't it said that Rebels!Vader is in fact a prime Vader?
Anyway, there is no answer at the moment. Many depends of the authors. For example, Stover and Luceno. First is the one to make Force users more OP, in his mind those guys are fast as lightning. Luceno doesn't like it as much. So, Stover's version of any character will be stronger then Luceno's. But there are other differences between them: for example, Stover agrees with prievous concept of Lucas, that Anakin lost much of his powers, potential I mean, on Mustafar. Luceno, on the other hand, suggested that those were just a mental blockades in Vader's mind. His final version of Vader would possibly has inferior showings to Stover's Vader, yet he would be still more powerful.
Filoni at some point believed, that ROTJ Luke was inferior to guys like Fisto. Now he possibly changed his mind, yet if it would be and younger Filoni and he would be a director... hard to tell what the outcome would be.
Anyway, it's not an answer, but one clear thing for me is:
ROTS Anakin/Vader > ROTS Dooku > ROTS/Kenobi!Kenobi > Kenobi! Vader
This. After the AOTC flashback, I thought Obi-Wan would outsmart Vader or take advantage of his overconfidence or something. I never imagined Kenobi would just overpower him (both physically and with the Force) and beat him down. I honestly felt sorry for Vader at the end.
Kenobi beat the shit out of Vader, imo Obi-Wan was out-dueling him the entire fight.
It's Vader's fault for not being able to protect his control panel, Obi-Wan took advantage of a weakness, as most people do in a fight they really want/need to win, fictional or otherwise.
true plus Vaders feelings got in the way which declined his force powers further.. i think when Obi also threw the rocks on Vader i think that also stuffed up vaders breathing apparatus slightly.. i think i heard a slight weeze in his breath but have to re watch that part
It’s kinda hard to tell because Vader wasn’t at 100% during their fight. Palpatine confirmed that Vader’s feelings weakened him. So it really just depends on how weakened he was.
Even Vader stated that Kenobi regained his strneght. That suggest that he was beating Vader while he was about his level in ROTS. And that suggest that Vader is "crippled half-mashine half-man".
Anyway, that stupid, silly "sword ranking" that puts Vader above Palpatine is not even funny now. Rather pathetic.
I dunno guys, im now questioning if Obi-Wan at the end of ROTS when he beat Anakin was on the same level as Obi-Wan at the beginning of ROTS when Dooku beat him.
I mean the guy can level up mid fight, let alone in the span of an entire film.
Jun 23rd, 2022 01:40 AM
Thanks Scribble!
