Ok i thought i would give a shot at giving the oppertunity for all of us horror movie fans to discuss, what exactly needs to change in the horror genre. Now i know we all basically know what it is that the industry is lacking, but this is the place for everyone to dish out opinions on why the genre has been so damn dry and dissapointing lately. I believe the horror realm needs a shot of rawness and risk. Yeah there are movies that try to take risks, but they are just terribly executed, I also understand the fact that the horror genre is not a premise that movie studios run to produce, but with recent flicks like cabin fever and 28 days later. It is obvious that if done well the Horror world can be a strong point of entertainment.
So what do you all think needs to change, what needs to be done for us to recieve some good horror movies again, im not talking about international, i know other countries know how to do horror, but im tlaking about ehre in the States. Is it that writers and directors need to stop focusing on what worked and maybe what works, or is it deeper than that, what do you think? How can we breakn away from remakes and poorley written stories and into new ideas that we havent seen. I know the TCM and dawn of the dead remake did well but come on, were they really good? No they were recycled garbage that couldnt live up any where near the originals, even the better horror flicks are just inspirations of the old classics, what needs to be done to get somthing new and original
__________________ "If you tell the truth, you never have to remember anything" -Twain
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Last edited by jinXed by JaNx on Apr 18th, 2004 at 05:07 AM
I hope you weren't implying that "Cabin Fever" was a good movie.
What the horror genre needs is something that will never happen, that being a total annihilation of teenage actors in horror movie roles. They've been a staple of the genre since the mid 70's, so they won't stop now.
However, what the genre can do is exercise patience. If there aren't any fresh ideas that can come to fruition, don't resort to doing certain doom remakes of classics. Buffs don't appreciate it, and they usually don't translate well into modern times.
Another thing which kind of plays off the patience virtue, is originality. Don't make like Eli Roth, and package a horror movie as your own, when it blatantlty rips off "TCM", "Wrong Turn", "Deliverance", "Evil Dead" and "28 Days Later". It's painfully obvious.
There's plenty of rawness in horror films, it's just that alot of horror movie freaks are so jaded and numb to gore and violence, that writers are running out of ways to kill people! I think that "Dawn of the Dead" (2004) helped bring horror movies back to the forefront. There were wicked impalations, dismemberment, and gore galore. Stuff that would normally be reserved for straight to video, Anchor Bay style indie stuff.
I think that alot of U.S. writers are already doing all they can to breathe life into the genre, by importing Japanese directors to do their films. If we could get some "Battle Royale" and "Versus" type movies done here in the States, and done TASTEFULLY and effectively, we could be headed in the right direction.
One last thing that needs to happen to American horror is by shutting the door on the big franchises once and for all. Put Jason to bed, throw Freddy in his incinerator, take Michael's mask off, use Pinhead as a pin cushion, throw Chucky in the closet, tell Pumpkinhead that Halloween's over, and hire Candyman as a beekeeper.
Before all that happens, I'd still like to see Clint Howard in one last "ice Cream Man" movie.
i deffaintly agree with you cinema. I believe Movie studios rely to much on making movies that revolve around what has worked in the past. Instead of venturing down new avenues. All the best hooror flicks have an intriguing storyline. Simple they may be, they are still intriguing. Not to mention also, well calculated gore, and suspension of reality. Yes i know there are great script writers out there, but they have no choice when the producer says CHANGE THIS.
I think that is why we are stuck in a canstant loop of redundancy in horror movies. If you want to find originality in horror you have to go to thriller suspense. How much more of these tributes and homage films can we really stand? I mean really, the only that i can see that have worked properly are house of a thousand corpses, and cabin fever. These are movies that borrowed from everyhting we loved from old campy horror movies mixed with a bit of there own style. They also never took thereselves serious which was very pleasing to see, because today, horror movies are eigther to serious or not serious enough.
One other thing that was pointed out that i agree with is the generation slasher flicks. Ok i know every generation needs there own slasher movies. however, everytime a popular slasher movie comes out, it seems that studios jump on the bandwagon and want to get some of the quick fame. Maybe when one of these popular slasher flicks come out, instead of copying, why not invest in the Genre itself instead of a certain premise.
__________________ "If you tell the truth, you never have to remember anything" -Twain
(sig by Scythe)
What the American horror film needs is a generous injection of imagination. Some new kid on the block with enough ideas, balls and vision to put his work on screen. And money dose'nt even come into the equation. Just look at THE LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT, THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE, HALLOWEEN and THE EVIL DEAD. All landmark horror films -whatever you think of them- and all made for a song.
Only two horror films of the past ten years made any impression on me.
THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT and CRASH. The later being Canadian. And neither having splatter effects or a CGI moment in sight.
The Asians seem to be leading the way in this area at the moment. Films like AUDITION, DARK WATER, VERSUS, The RINGU Trilogy, THE EYE, UZUMAKI, KAIRO, etc. are all memorable or, at the very least, interesting. Then you have the "harder" ones like RED TO KILL, THE ISLE, THE RAPE AFTER, THE EBOLA SYNDROME and EVIL DEAD TRAP, etc. Films that would have being playing American drive-ins and grind-houses thirty or so years ago had they been around.
The advent of video seems to have knocked the small independent horror film for six. Anyone can now make a "cheap" horror film but very few can make a "good" horror film.
And why aren't books such as the best works of Poppy Z Brite, Clive Barker, Ramsey Campbell, JR Landsdale, James Herbert, Jonathan Aycliffe -the later having some of the scariest stuff I've EVER read- etc. adapted for screen?
Barker's THE DAMNATION GAME is so visual that it reads like a screenplay just waiting for the green light. The same with Herbert's THE FOG and Aycliffe's NAOMI'S ROOM.
__________________ #I've kicked the habit...
shed my skin...
this is the new stuff...#
i think the american horror film industrie gettin worse...instead of making classics like they used to such as exorcist, shining, dawn of the dead, halloween, nightmare on elm street.....we are constantly being given a load of wank remakes and cheesy films such as freddy vs jason. dont get me wrong..freddy vs jason is entertaining but it isnt exactly horror in my eyes...theres is blood and gore but that dont make a good horror film.....it seems the only decent horror films that are comin out at the moment are from other countrys...u have films such as irreversible and haute tension from france.....battle royale....versus...ringu from japan...even england have gave everyone a great fil in 28 days later......the only film that seems to be faithfull to old classics is house of a 1000 corpses...rob zombie may be the saviour..who knows....but in some respects its fair to sympathize with directors because its so hard ro make a good horror film these days because everything has been done...everything down to zombies, vampires, madmen in masks killin babysitters, demons, people possesed and plagued by ghosts, ****in hell, the list is endless...sorry people but horror wont be like it used to be and from now on we will only be watchin wank remakes and carbon copys of old classics we love...how long before we are watchin ****in michael myers vs pinhead or jason vs michael...its bound to happen sooner or later..sure there will be great movies to come but will only come around on rare occassions
anyways thats my opinion
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"How about this? Shut your mouth...Or I'll kick your teeth down your throat and shut it for you."
I'll tell you the one thing most horror films today lack:
STYLE
All they need is style and good direction and a good cast and you'll have a gem.
Look at Dawn of the dead (2004) Of any horror movies that can be done badly is that because it's a remake. It's simeple; Zack Snyder is an obviously talented, stylistic, promising new-comer. It's not the writing that makes a bad movie -- it's the directing. Take a look at From Dusk 'Till Dawn: Of any movies that Trantino wrote and didn't direct that could have been done badly -- it's that film. But, when you get such a talented filmmaker as Robert Rodriguez to direct it, it becomes a good, memorable film. Rodriguez used hi own creativity in it, rather than sticking just to the script. Abou the writing though, it is essential because some writers tend to fall to cliche's and they watch other, cliched horror film to help write the script, or they watch classics instead of just creating their own script.
Back to the directing: The director doesn't HAVE to do the specific parts of the script. They don't have to make the character walk into a dark room and be snuck up upon. If the director wants to, they can make them killed in a brightly-lit room. They can take the stupid 'Hello" lines out and just have them stabbed to death without a last word. You're the director -- you're in the captains chair! Also, about gore: sometimes directors think you must show everything. That's not true. If you show everything, it just gets real old real fast and jaeds and numbs the audience even more. Even if a horror movie script has cliches and is un-original, the director can stylize it and really make it their own movie, rather than another sequil. If the dialogue sucks, work around it, ad flavor to it without re-writing it.
I think the film also relies on the acting. They always must use unknowns because of budget issues. There are plenty of hot b-list actors and actresses that will probably do it. Get a pretty decent actor and they can create a great character out of one that's written paper-thin, and make not only dialogue and the character interesting, but also make the characters part of what makes the fim interesting, rather than just casting set-decorations to be in a film. What most younf actors might not realize is that the character is yours -- you can do what ever you want with them. You can make the character mello or wiry. You can make them always eating fruit for some reason. Just because there's nothing in the script, doesn't mean you can't add to your character.
The style really depends on the director, and the actors. The writing is the heart of the film, but the director is the brain, and the brain is more important than the core script. The movie can suck on paper, but you can make it kick so much ass on screen with the right cast and style. It can also depend on the editor and cinamatographer. A great cinamatographer can give a very unique visual style to the film, and the editor can cut it so that it seems faster-paced and complete the final visual style of the film. All horror films need is style.
Another example of the writer's duty -- When Quentin Tarantino was given Robert Kurtzman's story outline, there was only aboutua page of the build-up and about five pages of the tity twister. He could have just given it a few minutes to build up, but he chose to make MORE THAN HALF of the entire film is just the Gecko bros. and the Fuller family beforethey get to the Titty Twister. He made a great writind decision by fully developing the characters and their situation, making it a different movie until suddenly, WHAM! VAMPIRES out fo nowhere! That's style.
I agree here. I must say that I consider acting an essential in the horror movie. Many characters in horror movies have a very unique and interesting personality to them and actors to match. With guys like Lance Henriksen, Robert Englund, Bruce Campbell, Gunnar Hansen, John Saxon, Kane Hodder, and Tom Savini out there you would think the low budget films would try to get them, but no they always have to get the stupid teens. I mean these guys have proven they will go into the low budget movie even if the movie sucks.
__________________ Mean Man: "Listen mr. I've been trick or treated to death tonight."
I just saw House of 1000 Corpses and i must say itwas VERY GOOD!
If the genre can dish out movies like that i bit more often then it could make a good comeback.
the biggest problem facing the horror industry i find, is that the idea well has dried. you think of it, its been done. coming up with something no one has seen before i damn near impossible. people have also been decensatised, they dont get shocked when someone gets their head cut off no more. in the 70's people pissed themselves, these days they dont even cut it out when they put is on the t.v.
the directors have really got two obvious choises.
1. spend a while giving it a bit of thought and come up with a new idea, another concept that they think will work and making it scary, not by gore or by graphic detail, but in a different way.
2. keep producing the same old predictible stuff. they could make movies up to Friday the 13th 27 and i'd watch them, but wether i'd like them is different. if they make them people will watch them, Jason, Myers, Freddy, Pinhead, they all have a huge fan base who love the character who will keep watching just cos they think there cool. either way, money will be spent more on horror, be it bad or good. unfortunatly #2 is the obviously the answer . as it is the obvios answer.
__________________ If you dont like Frenzal Rhomb, your a whore!
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'tis no wonder the horror film is dead...an interesting thread like this gets only 12 hits and other fan boy poll tripe runs ad nausea seemingly forever...
__________________ #I've kicked the habit...
shed my skin...
this is the new stuff...#
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Apr 18th, 2004 05:01 AM
