Ok so here's the situation: Superman, on his own, becomes evil. Clark gets rid of all his morals and decides to use his powers for his own good, nobody else's. He is at his normal strength, with no sun dipping, no special suits, no tech from other worlds, nothing. He's just at his normal strength level, but enraged and evil.
Your objective: Figure out a plan, how you think the DC universe would deal with this threat. Seeing as this isn't a standard "blah blah vs blah blah" versus thread, you are given lots of options, but here are the rules:
No PIS, no CIS (everyone realizes how big of a threat this is, and fights to their fullest potential, no matter how weak they are), nothing that wouldn't seem logical (IE, you can't say "Well Flash goes to the Marvel universe and brings Galactus, and then they combine efforts and fight Superman", because we aren't bringing Marvel into this, and Galactus wouldn't team up with Flash)
Example of a possibility:
The Justice League meets and they send all their "tech boys" to build kryptonite, laser, etc weaponry that Superman would be vulnerable to. They send their "big guns" such as Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern and whatnot to actually fight Superman. Meanwhile, Batman, using some sort of specialized suit, with kryptonite, enlisting the aid of Lex Luthor, figures out some sort of a full-proof plan. As the weaponry fires at Superman and the "big guns" wail their best, Batman and Luthor's plan is into action (whatever it might be), and Superman is killed.
Note: Superman must be KILLED, not sent to the Phantom Zone and left alive, or frozen and put on some distant planet or anything like that. Whatever you plan is, it must be what the superheros plan would be to KILL Superman as quickly as possible, trying to lose as little of their members as possible, of course.
I think most people will go with batman being the key here, as he brings the kryptonte. And im no different. Heres my idea:
Batman, Mr Terrific, The Atom and Steel brainstorm on weapons and containment to handle the big blue.
Whilst they are the brains behind it, they enlist both MM and Flash to monitor Superman, with the speed and telepathy they track his moves and keep up with him.
Relaying any information back to the brains in the watch tower they formulate an ambush attack.
Time for the big guns, MM, GL and WW try to constrain superman, with a combination of speed, strength and GLs ring they manage to hold him, but this being superman, wont lat for long. Dr Fate turns up and unleashes his magic. Fate together with gl manages to hold the boyscout.
meanwhile flash has picked up batman and is on his way towards the others so the final blow (a kryptonite power nullifyer) can be deivered by baman.
As flash and bats arrive, superman has just about broken out of his constraints, but not quickly enough as Captain marvel and Captain america arrive to help out. Batman fires his deadly kyptonite powered ray at the exact moment captain atom blasts him with red sun radiation and captain marvel uses his lightning as a magical weapon (a la kingdom come).
I thnkthis is a good thread makes a change from the same old, who can hurt hulk, wolvie can kill galactus, is batman with prep the best threads.
My idea was only a basic one aswell im sure some others can come up with a more imaginative way to bea supes
Wouldn'twork.
Read Batman:Hush, whereby Batman states the following:
If Clark wanted to, he could use his superspeed and squish me into the cement. But I know how he thinks. Even more than the Kryptonite, he's got one big weakness. Deep down Clark's essentially a good person ....and deep down I am not."
A few panels later he adds how Superman is holding back as much as he can.
Note that Superman was being controlled by Poison Ivy, and even though he was under her influence and being told to attack Batman he still managed to hold back (because his nature for good still existed under the surface, even with Ivy's control affecting him).
Also note that Batman was hitting Superman with sonics.
With electricity.
With light.
And most importantly, with KRYPTONITE.
Now, imagine what would happen if Superman was truly evil.
Totally evil, implying that his 'good nature' (which was still working in the background even under Ivy's control) was totally gone.
In essence Batman would walk up with a chunk of Kryptonite, and immediately Superman would vaporize his head.
To stop a truly evil Superman would require the heavy hitters in DC. A group that has the power mix to keep up with Superman (thus requiring omni-dimensional characters), plus the ability to capitalize on any of Superman's weaknesses (and to do so quickly, since an evil Superman would probably be speed-blitzing anything and everything .....kind of how he was fighting against Imperiex, literally hitting the guy on every square inch with fists, arctic breath, heat vision, you name it).
Batman would be totally out of his league here, and if he brought kryptonite it would only serve to guarantee an even faster demise for the Bruce. Superman would take Bats out faster if he had kryptonite.
To stop Superman:
Martian Manhunter
The Flash (give the Flash many small shards of Kryptonite and he would be effective in peppering Kal-El with at least some of them, and whether the Flash makes it or not at least Superman will have some of the shards within him ....unlike the Batman scenario where Bruce would be over and done with in less than a second).
Zoom (I would actually chose him BEFORE the Flash, because while the Flash is fast Zoom is ahead of time, meaning that no matter how fast Superman went he couldn't catch up with Zoom .....unless he was Pre-Crisis level Superman who could transcend time. Normal Superman may approach, and at times breach, lightspeed, and thus may be a problem for the Flash .....especially if Supes is going at max speed, and the Flash is JUST beyond reach, but then Superman decides to use heat vision ......but he is not catching Zoom)
Dr Fate
Phantom Stranger
Shazam the Wizard (but since he is dead I will settle for Jakeen Thunder, as long as he has his imp genie already working before Superman attacks)
Captain Marvel (he can at least slow down Superman if necessary)
Black Adam (see Cap. Marvel's entry)
Mr Majestic (since he has made several showings with Superman he can count .....and he is definitely able to keep up with Kal-El, and he would be a pretty good option).
My first team would be:
Mr Majestic
Martian Manhunter
Black Adam
Zoom
Phantom Stranger
Shazam the Wizard.
That team would be the first team, and it would need to hit him as hard as possible with no regard to anything (which is why i chose Adam instead of Marvel, and Zoom instead of Flash)
Backup team:
Cap. Marvel
Jakeen Thunder
Dr Fate
The Flash
These guys exist just for Jakeen Thunder (because if Superman went through the first team this team would fall) ....however if Jakeen has his genie out then Superman would have to concede.
Thus the backup team is just a shell for Jakeen Thunder, giving him the precious seconds he needs to get his genie imp out.
Although to be honest I doubt Superman, no matter how evil, would get past the first team (he woud have to be sun-dipped to get through that, since there are several people who match his powers plus several cosmic level magic users)
Last edited by spetznaz on Feb 14th, 2006 at 09:25 PM
And like you say - an evil Superman would be speedblitzing everything with planet-destroying punches, so Batman would not be a factor in this fight whatsoever.
The key people in this war against Superman would be:
a) Green Lanterns - they have the ability to create synthetic Kryptonite radiation, which though it won't take Supes out by itself, will at least weaken him for others to stand a chance of wounding him. Also, GLs have the durability to take punches from Superman and live to tell the tale.
b) The Marvel Family - with magically imbued speed and strength to rival Supes, these guys will be instrumental in taking Supes down. Even if the GLs are taken down, these guys can hurt Superman without KNite, as their strength is magically imbued. They've not shown speed to totally match Superman before, but they do have the right mixture of superspeed, strength and crucially magic, to hold Superman up, if not defeat him outright.
c) Dr Fate - this is what Cap Marvel and co will holding Supes up for; powerful spells cast by this supreme sorceror. With Superman being well aware of his weaknesses, he'll take out magic users first, so it'd be the Marvels' and GLs' jobs to keep Fate alive.
These three groups of people should be sufficient to take down Supes. There are however people whom are normally classed as heavyweights in the league who wouldn't be included in this fight.
a) Wonder Woman - she's fast, strong and a good fighter. But she's not as fast as Superman. She's not as strong as him. Nor as durable. Her only advantage in their previous encounters is that she doesn't hesistate when it comes to hurting people. Well, in this case, neither will Supes....
b) Flash - this fight will be fought in the air - Supes' home territory. Flash won't get a look in.
c) Martian Manhunter - though powerful, Jonn won't get much of a look in in this fight. Physically, he can only amp himself up to match Supes for very short periods of time. Mentally, he might distract Supes, but as shown on countless occassions, Superman is very resistant to psychic attacks. And bearing in mind that Supes will be moving faster than Jonn ever could, Jonn has better be wary of heat vision.
--------------------------
GLs, Marvels and Dr Fate are what's really needed to take Supes down. But if you wished, there are many many people to throw into the fray who could potentially tip the balance - but only if Supes were to slow down or fight dumb.
Wonder Woman could give a good fight, but only if Supes slowed down. Same with Jonn. And if Supes came down to earth, Flash'd be over him like a rash. Likewise, powerful people such as Raven, Zatanna, Black Adam - many more.
But like I've said, if Supes is speedblitzing and using his powers with no regard for morality, then the people I've named above are the guys you really need to take him out quickly and efficiently.
__________________
The REAL Men on KMC - Whirly, Juntai, Darkcrawler, Avalon...
Good posts, I like them. I love it when I can actually read some sort of an intelligent post lol. I can't stand the versus threads that are like "Shut up, I think so and so wins because during some non-canon comic, he barely won, so yeah, that means you're an idiot" lol
Seems I remember Lex Luthor inventing red-sun devices, from time to time over the decades, which weakened Superman (and weaken him is all you gotta do so that he can then be killed by more conventional means). Couldn't Batman do likewise? And why does Bats have to be the delivery system? He can plan it out, but if he's really tactful, he will use what super-powered assistance he has to best advantage. I mean, WW has magic; that's another weakness right there.
This may not be as difficult as it sounds, the JLA taking out Big Blue. WW has given him a hard time on her own.
__________________
Shinier than a speeding bullet.
I think a tag team of Captain Marvel, and Supergirl would be able to put him down long enough for Fate to do his work. I wouldn't doubt that Supergirl could hold him off long enough by herself actually.
Here's the scenario: You have Supergirl, and Captain Marvel fighting the man of steel. Manhunter and Wonder Woman on one side, with the Flash and Power girl on another, GL and Black Adam on the 3rd side, and Zatanna along with another GL on the last side.
Superman is pretty much trapped. He has 2 powerful people bringing the beat down on him, with 8 standing at the ready. All the while Fate preparing the final attack.
__________________
The only thing thats with you your whole life is complete and utter darkness.
Last edited by Darth Macabre on Feb 15th, 2006 at 03:18 AM
Flash steals his speed and high velocity punches him. Sorta like Impulse stole Impulses speed, or another flash stealing supes speed.
A Gl could do it by themselves if they fought with their heads, and to whoever said that the Marvel family has not fought on the same speed as supes, Black Adam was fighting the flash (jsa one) and everyone around them looked like statues.
Do you really think one Green Lantern could take down this pissed off evil Superman? Ion could, I wouldn't doubt that, or someone like Parallax or whatever, but say...Stewart. Would he be able to take Superman down by himself you think? I think Clark would be able to take enough to kill him.
KMC Community Forums
Feb 14th, 2006 07:13 PM
