Wow, good comeback. </sarcasm> I never said Ulic wouldn't beat Kyle, or that Kyle would beat Ulic. I never even said who would win, I just was implying for you to list reasons. Good perceptions.
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"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
I think Kyle. Let's see...Kyle is said by people here to be the best duelist even better than Luke, and he killed 7 dark jedi. Hmm, not much else I could see about him cause that's all i know. The only thing Ulic has done impressive was become a ghost when he cut off from the force.
Last edited by Blue_Hefner on Sep 4th, 2006 at 07:44 PM
1.) Nebaris, my arguments have been made three times already. When dealing with Kyle, it's all a matter of copy + paste my posts because they address everything.
2.)
Dueling
Okay, moving on: in terms of dueling - Ulic is definitely impressive. He was able to hold off Sylvar while having no connection to the Force, he stalemated Exar Kun before he got his double-bladed lightsaber however, and did some other miscellaneous feats (such as defeating Warb Null in one swipe).
Now, while that's impressive, Kyle has far more under his belt, and the fact he was able to do it with little to no real Jedi training - a neophyte - it only adds to the fact. He was able to defeat Sariss. She is a very formidable duelist, she is second only to Jerec out of everyone during that time, and she was a master lightsaber user as noted by Qu Rahn "Out of all the Dark Jedi I have met, Sariss is the one I can say I fear. Powerful, strong in both the physical and mental arenas of the Force, she is a master, a perfectionist, quiet and reserved. This makes her a very dangerous foe." And keep in mind Qu Rahn is the guy who was able to singlehandedly cut Maw in half even while being vastly outnumbered. He's no pushover.
He also faced against Boc the Cruda, the insane Twi'lek that Jerec had picked, so we can obviously gauge he was powerful. He used dual lightsabers, and used an unorthodox style as well, which as far as I recall, was said to "slay many Jedi". As well, he took on Pic and Gorc, two "brothers" who were described as: "Pic is the energy and Gorc, the counter. They are the clashing balance of opposites: one, the voice; the other, the body. This combination is deadly." And we do know Pic and Gorc are deadly. They are like the Dark Jedi version of how Mace and Depa are described, "making up for each others' weaknesses".
As well, there was also Yun, who was young and somewhat inexperienced, but nonetheless powerful, "These elements make him a dangerous and unpredictable foe." And finally - for lightsaber combat - there's Maw, who's only half a body anyways, but is still described as a "strong and formidable foe". He uses Trispzest lightsaber form, and he is a strong duelist in any case. Kyle also took on Mara Jade with no training either, and while she may not be near the best - she is still decent. Given what we know of Kyle, and the fact he's now a fully trained Jedi Master - I honestly don't see Ulic beating him.
However, I'm sure someone's going to bring up the fact that he stalemated Exar Kun. Yes, he stalemated him in lightsaber combat. So what? Kyle killed Jerec, Sariss, and five others in lightsaber combat, lol. With little to no formal training. Honestly, stalemating Kun just isn't comparable to what Kyle has done. And now he is a fully trained Jedi Master, and battle master - lightsaber instructor - of the New Jedi Order.
And we can also add to the fact that he did defeat Desann, where Luke had not. Not that Kyle > Luke or anything, he just was able to defeat him.
3.)
Force Power
Ulic, in terms of the Force, didn't do anything too impressive. He was the only one out of his Jedi party to withstand King Ommin's darkside energy, and really didn't do much else. He doesn't know how to utilize Sadow's amulet, because as we see - when he releases the amulet's energy, it only knocks the opposition down for like one second at best.
Kyle has done far more impressive thing, when you consider he took on Jerec, who did receive training Sidious, Jocasta Nu, and Lord Vader. He was also capable of cutting people off from the Force: "Jerec has the uncanny power to absorb and overshadow one’s connection to The Force", and was a fully trained Jedi. Qu Rahn had brought up the point that if Jerec were to get a boost from the Valley of the Jedi, his power would be described as such:
"If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought. The eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power."
And Jerec did get a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when fighting Kyle, see these quotes:
"Jerec turned, extended his hand, and triggered an explosion" which means he just casually stuck out of hand and an explosion happened.
"...he was about to become the most powerful individual in the civilized worlds no, in the universe ", that speaks volumes for the power that the Valley of the Jedi gives. And we do know that Kyle himself received a nice little boost from the VotJ afterwards.
"The Dark Jedi drew upon the energy that leaked out of the Valley, gave it shape, and hurled the construct at Kyle's chest. The blast threw the Rebel backward onto the loading ramp. He staggered and had just managed to reestablish his footing when a second, more powerful explosion hurled him back into the cargo ship." Meaning Jerec was able to produce DBZ-like blasts, yet Kyle still defeated him even with no real training.
And, Jerec was also viewed as one of the galaxy's biggest threats. So, keeping all that in mind, Kyle against that opponent, who had that kind of power, was able to cut Jerec's connection to the Force off:
"The Jedi fell, struggled to stay aloft, and fell again. Something, or someone, had cut his access to the dark side of the Force..."
He cut Jerec off from the Force. He was also able to remove a dark column of energy, "which is basically like Force light. And he was also capable of summoning a protection barrier, described as a "protective cocoon". As well, I'm fairly certain Kyle is able to utilize the ability of Force lightning.
We know that Kyle Force pushed four people at one time:
That alone is more than even Sadow's amulet did in the hands of Ulic, lmfao. So, as I usually just post the same thing over and over because it's the only argument needed when dealing with an inferior Force user to Katarn. Sorry if my posts are repetitive, but they still own.
4.)
Misc.
Miscellaneous stuff that probably doesn't matter for Kyle would include the fact:
- Kyle has more experience dealing with enemy forces. We know this because Ulic's first mission was to Iziz. So, he hardly is battle hardened. Not saying that he doesn't have some experience, however, Kyle has 5 years of experience through the Yuuzhan Vong war. And he also has 4 from the Galactic Civil War.
- He was singlehandedly able to infiltrate an Imperial installation on Danuta, securing the technical plans of the Empire's Death Star battle station.
- He has bested a countless number of troopers, and if I remember correctly, was able to beat Boba Fett.
We do know experience matters, not the determining factor, but it gives Kyle a big edge. Given he's dealt with unorthodox fighters, immensely powerful fighters, and is pretty much equipped for every and any threat he must face.
The Winner
Kyle Katarn is the obvious choice in an all out battle. I'd be willing to bet Kyle can best him without using Force powers, and likewise can do it with only Force powers. I don't mean to seem like a Katarn fangirl by picking him all the time, but really - he just is that good. Better than 80% of the Star Wars roster practically.
So Nebaris, my argument is now apparant, and existant - where's yours?
__________________
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
Lol, I, too, say Ulic, he wasn't to far behind Exar, was he? And if you look at other threads that Ulic has been in most people think that he'd beat people like Yoda, Mace and Sidious, and I'd put Kyle perhaps on par with those people.
Wow, great argument, darthsith. If you look now, like right now Yoda > Exar Kun. So, you're wrong. You're basing your opponent of stuff that was said ages ago. When Exar Kun was able to singlehandedly tool the PT council ALONE. And so could Revan. Read the Yoda vs. Exar Kun thread, and then tell me Ulic can beat Yoda.
Now, that hardly means Yoda > Kun - as opinions change, but just because people used to think Kun and Ulic were the best, doesn't mean they are. And to base an opinion off that is purely stupid.
__________________
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
Last edited by Advent on Sep 4th, 2006 at 08:53 PM
When I said "Yoda > Exar", I meant it as "if you look at posts now, Yoda > Exar". He based his opinion off the fact other people used to think Exar > All. So, I refuted that with the fact opinions change, and you should not base opinions of what other people say. Unless, of course, they give good evidence and show capable logic. Much like Borbarad did in the Yoda vs. Kun thread.
__________________
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." - Sagacious Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn.
Last edited by Advent on Sep 4th, 2006 at 09:06 PM
Advent, I don't really have the time or energy to reply to all of that today, but I will make just one point.
Much of what you have deduced is based on the opinion of someone who you have no idea how powerful he is, and therefor none of these opinions can determine how powerful they are on a relative scale. You can't determine how powerful any of these people are on a relative scale because the only thing supporting that is the opinion of someone who you don't know how powerful is and therefor can't compare. Makes sense? (in regards to what you posted about lightsaber ability)
Sep 4th, 2006 06:46 PM
