Kas'im: the guy who mastered all seven forms and spent decades perfecting them, was described to be in superb physical shape, was capable of using the Force to defend himself against attacks that would have been able to absolutely annihilate his undefended body in an instant, was described as being able to wield his two blades with the effectiveness of six, and was declared the greatest swordsman of his time by the omniscient narrator, and possibly the greatest ever.
Bane: the guy who, on fair ground with the above in lightsaber combat, absolutely demolished him. The guy who who was capable of moving at speeds far beyond the eyes of powerful Force users.
^And that's not even taking into account the fact that Bane grows considerably in power by the end of PoD, after he starts actually utilising his new found abilities, where he becomes far more powerful than he was when he performed mentioned feats.
It's no contest. Bane absolutely shits on Obi-Wan in lightsaber combat.
1. Oh, please. A minor advantage with lightsaber forms is far outweighed by a considerable superiority in Force ability (which itself is demonstrated in Bane's fight with Kas'im, who not only was able to use said form in combat (plus every other), but was literally leagues beyond him in that respect), and that's something that Bane possesses over Obi-Wan, firmly, to an even greater degree than he did with Kas'im.
2. Bane isn't limited to Djem So, as he's shown using both your vaunted Soresu, and Makashi, in combat, consistently throughout PoD.
Kas'im spent his entire life honing his saber skills, and was stated to be the best swordsman of his era, perhaps of any era. That's very high up, and Bane, well, Kas'im did manage to get him in the saber duel eventualy but it took a LONG time and it was very close. By the end of PoD, Bane is probably Kas'im's equal with a saber. Kenobi's strength is his lightsaber skills, and he held off a pissed off Anakin for a long time. In fact, we never see anyone penetrate Obi-Wan's saber defense in all of ROTS. This would undoubtedly be close, but unless Bane makes a mistake like ROTS Vader did, or Kenobi gets the high ground, I'd say the guy who matches the guy who's possibly the bests saber wielder ever (up to his era) wins.
Force goes to Bane, Kenobi's not bad but seeing how badly Dooku demolished him with the Force I'd say Bane could do the same.
All-out goes to Bane.
What? When the f*ck was this??? I remember them fighting on uneven ground (the temple) and Kas'im, in the end, after a LONG fight, beat him in sabers. Then, Bane used the Force to drop the temple on him. The only other times they fought with sabers, that I am aware of, was when Kas'im was teaching Bane and theysparred, and all those times Kas'im won.
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Last edited by darthsith19 on Mar 30th, 2008 at 07:09 PM
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LOL WUT? Too bad Bane only demolished him when he force raped him. Bane himself admitted that Kas'im was whooping his ass in lightsaber combat, which his why he resorted to using the force. Losing to Kas'im in lightsaber combat does not = a good feat, even if he did hold out for awhile.
Speculation. Probably 100% correct, but it means nothing.
Nah, Neb. As far as Bane's track record is concerned in PoD, IIRC he only actually won one lightsaber duel without using the force offensively, aside from the fights that he was in that weren't actually shown. Every time that he's about to get his ass wafflestomped he throws a temper tantrum and lashes out with the force, which gives him the win. That doesn't bode well for him in a purely lightsabers only fight. Obi-Wan will probably have to work his ass off for it, but he will take pure lightsaber combat.
This is only relevant in the all out fight and force fight, where it's already the common census that Bane would win those due to his force abilities.
Apparently you both need to reeducate yourselves on what happened.
So as I said, Bane was able to completely destroy Kas'im, when they were on equal ground. Kas'im was only able to defeat him with an added and unfair advantage on his side.
No, it's not speculation; given that Bane goes from having to charge up an attack to destroy a temple (which incidentally left him drained afterwards) to being able to effortlessly absorb a planetary level magnitude of force lightning (during the BoD Force Storm Ritual), it's pretty conclusive that there was a pretty substantial improvement, best explained by the fact that he starts actually exploring the knowledge contained in Darth Revan's holocron in depth following his departure from Lehon.
It happens twice.
The fist time being when Bane was barely trained, and the second time being when Kas'im was utilising the Jar'Kai form of combat against him, and was described as literally having millions of combinations at his command that were all completely alien to Bane. It was an enormous advantage, that only Kas'im would possess against him. It's irrelevant in this scenario, because a) as mentioned, Obi-Wan wouldn't possess the same advantage against him, and b) Bane's relative level of ability from that duel alone can't be quantified, as his poor performance can be attributed to the disadvantage he faced with being up against an absolute master of a weapon that Bane had no familiarity with.
...
Seriously Blaxican, I know that you're hardly the man when it comes to knowing your stuff, but I did think that you at least somewhat knew what you're talking about. Apparently not.
A Force user's ability with the Force is absolutely *not* irrelevant when it comes to lightsaber combat - in fact, it's probably the most significant factor there is (Kas'im and Yoda say as much during their training sessions). It enhances a Force user's speed, strength, reflexes, and stamina, it enables them to see into the future, and it's what Jedi rely on, as a sense, over any of their natural ones. The greater a Force user's ability with the Force is, the more potent the above mentioned benefits are. It's what made Yoda and Sidious so effective with a lightsaber, and it's exactly what enabled Bane to overpower Kas'im - his superior in lightsaber technique by leagues - to such a degree in the first place.
No, he doesn't. Bane, far from being as powerful as he becomes by the end of PoD, was able to completely dominate Kas'im in close combat, and that was someone who was superior to Obi-Wan in every relevant area when it comes to saber combat (he was physically more impressive, he was leagues beyond him in saber technique, and more powerful with the Force). He was capable of (again, long before he reaches his PoD peak) moving so fast that powerful Force users couldn't even follow his movements, directly in the middle of combat, which as a showing of speed, goes far beyond anything we see from anyone from the PT era.
Obi-Wan is completely outclassed, and gets demolished in any and every scenario.
There are no rules when it comes to battles-to-the-death, Nebaris. Kas'im's advantage wasn't "unfair" or otherwise illegitimate simply because he was a swordsman with greater experience and technique than Bane.
Was the point not clear enough the first time I made it?
I wasn't whining about Kas'im's victory being cheap or anything; he used an advantage he possessed over Bane well, and won their exchange based on merits of his vast expertise with the lightsaber.
The point is that Kas'im's defeat of Bane, under those circumstances, doesn't conclusively prove that his relative level of ability (by that, I mean their ability in comparison to others, not to eachother) was better than Bane's, as the fact that Bane was unfamiliar with his style is a primary factor in his defeat. Bane's poor performance in that situation can be attributed to his unfamiliarity with Kas'im's style, which is a limitation that would only hinder him in a fight with the mentioned Twi'Lek (as Kas'im is the only combatant in Star Wars known to have mastered all seven forms with the Jar'Kai style), and it certainly wouldn't factor in on a fight with Obi-Wan.
What would, however, is the relative level of ability Bane displays in taking down someone of Kas'im's calibre on equal terms, and he absolutely outclassed someone who has Obi-Wan beat in every way as far as lightsaber combat goes.
The same would happen here: Obi-Wan would get curbstomped, the only difference being even moreso than Kas'im was.
You would still have to prove that he is capable of breaching through Obi-Wan's defense, which is among the greatest in swordsmanship to the point where Count Dooku (a man who spent decades refining Makashi and mastering it at levels Bane has not) didn't even bother and simply disabled him with the Force.
A) Mastered Soresu.
B) Spent decades perfecting it.
C) Has the defensive manoeuvres of all the six other forms at his command,
and how Bane had - by Kas'im's own admission - been in a position to break though the master swordsman's defences and defeat him, when they were on equal footing, I fail to see how Obi-Wan's defence would be too much for him. It certainly didn't prove too effective against Anakin's (who Bane is arguably far beyond given his performance against Kas'im and feats of speed) offence, given how frequently the young Sith Lord had been breaking through it via continuous melee attacks.
He was. By Lightsnake and AcStyles, and by them only.
Given Bane's phenomenal superiority in Force ability (and thus, superiority in speed, strength, and reflexes), I'm not thinking Obi-Wan would last too long. Seconds, if he's lucky.
Lucky for you there is a saber battle and a force battle. If Dooku was unable to penetrate Obiwan's defenses and had to resort to the force, Bane would have an even harder time.
Come again? ANd as Gideon said, it wasn't unfair. Kas'im possessed a lightsaber that was 2 blades, and could connect to make one double bladed lightsaber, like Asajj Ventress's blades. Using his lightsaber and his mastery of all lightsaber forms to his advantage is in no way cheap, and in the end, Kas'im did best Bane in saber combat.
Firstly, what the hell is up with the "Nebrais?" I know it's not a typo, as it's about the fifth time you've referred to me in such a way, so really, are you trying to be clever or something? Because it's not. At least "Noobaris" makes sense, even if it does sound somewhat lame, but this just sounds stupid. It would be like me purposefully calling you "Darth Siht." It just sounds stupid.
Secondly, it seems simple points are still completely beyond your grasp.
Bane ended up losing due to a lack of ability that would only work against him when up against Kas'im. His unfamiliarity with Jar'Kai would never hinder him to the degree that it did in his duel with Kas'im with any other combatant, and it certainly wouldn't be a factor in a fight with Obi-Wan. All that his loss speaks for is a lack of ability relative to Kas'im alone, not relative to anyone else, ergo it's irrelevant in any duel that Kas'im isn't a part of.
However, the first part of the fight, where neither possessed an unfair advantage over the other, and where Bane absolutely demolished the Blademaster does speak for their general relative ability, as Bane won based on merits that would be applicable in any fight (his incredible force ability). Neither possessed a specific advantage over the other, meaning that Bane did as well as he did, simply because he's just that good, and that much better than Kas'im is.
He would destroy Obi-Wan. He would be able to go on the offence immediately (given Obi-Wan's style), his natural style (variance in grip and blade angle, which only Kas'im would be familiar with) would likely be able to throw the Jedi Master off guard at first, and it would be all the more easy to quickly overpower Obi-Wan given the obvious inferiority in Force ability and physical conditioning there is between Kas'im and Obi-Wan, on Obi-Wan's part.
I would honestly give Obi-Wan seconds, at most. Bane's natural style which would catch Obi-Wan unawares + his ridiculous speed and strength net him an easy and early win.
It doesn't matter. I said he lost to Kas'im with a lightsaber, and that's all I said. And before you wet yourself, remember that I was the ONLY one besides you so far who favored Bane in all 3 scenarios.
Your original name, I believe, was Nebrais, so I called you that. Now, please do us all a favor and go suck Bane's cock somewhere else.
Mar 30th, 2008 04:46 AM
