Anakin all three. Vastor defeated Mace in hand to hand combat, but Mace acknowledges he would have defeated him with a lightsaber, and in fact, destroys him easily by using the force later in the book.
maybe a little difficulty in the second one, but the first and third with relative ease.
dTo clarify, Mace says that Kar would have defeated him in armed combat. Later the book even says something like "He [Mace] couldn't have defeated Kar on his best day, and today was one of his worst". Mace beat Kar in the end, I believe, because he found Kar's Shatterpoint.
That being said, yes, Mace did say Kar woould have beaten him in armed combat. He also said that about Depa, but unlike Depa, Kar actually proved himself to be on Mace's level. 2 and 3 would be tough for both combatants. I want to say that Anakin would win but I am uncertain. As for #1, at the end of their unarmed duel, didn't Kar pwn Mace with the Force? That's what I remember happening at least, if I remember correctly then Kar should take Anakin with the Force. I say:
Darthsith's right; after musing about how Kar was "younger, stronger, faster, and immensely more powerful," Mace admits that he couldn't beat Kar on his best day.
And he doesn't "pwn him with the Force." He throws a vibroshield at him from behind, and Vastor has to turn around and block it because he's in the air.
If Anakin takes the second one or third at all, it'll be with immense difficulty, and the Force-fight would be just as brutal. Hell, Kar managed to toss Mace around the jungle for quite a while before his telekinesis was grounded.
Realistically, Anakin should actually lose all three.
but when mace says he couldn't beat vastor on his best day, he's talking about the hand to hand combat.
He tell Nick and Depa that he picked a battle he couldn't win, PRECISELY for the reason of staying with the group. That's why he did hand to hand, instead of with weapons.
He doesn't get destroyed in force by Vastor either, because he never uses the force to attack him. Instead, he only uses the force in that duel to counter Vastor's attacks.
and i would argue, that impaling someone with a vibroshield, that was PULLED with the force, would count as a decisive force victory. (like Jacen's over Katarn)
No, he says it at the very end of the last battle, when it's just him and Kar facing eachother down.
I understand that people here don't like certain characters being, in one way or another, put above the established top dogs (Anoon v. Yoda, Kar v. Mace), but there's no point in arguing against canon.
but that statement is really contradictory. (and yeah, i rechecked it, sorry, i thought mace's statement was from earlier when he was talking to nick and depa right after his no weapons fight with Kar)
in the actual statment, he pretty much says, "i can't beat him on my best day"
and then BAM he beats him by impaling him with a shield. If Vastor can't protect against that kind of attack, then mace will always beat him, because in every place they could fight, there is something to stab him with, or something to hit him on the head with. In that case, mebbe i should say then.
1. sabers only: Vastor wins, because mace admitted he couldn't beat him.
2. force only: Mace because he hits vastor in the head with rocks or w/e
3. allout: Mace because he hits vastor in the head with rocks or w/e while keeping him at bay with his saber.
That's like saying Maul is going to lose every battle where there's a pit, or that Obi-Wan is going to win every battle where he can get to higher ground (which some people here use). It doesn't work like that.
Besides, Vastor was only defeated there because there was a vibroshield thrown at him - pretty much the only solid thing that can cut through a vibroshield is another vibroshield, and I highly doubt there are going to many of those lying around in a random setting. He also couldn't just dodge it because he was already flying through the air towards Mace; he had to turn around and try to block teh projectile with his own shields, a feat that was noted to depend on his "incredble" reflexes.
No, because as I said before, that was situational. I doubt someone as powerful as Kar (said to have raw power on the level of Yoda) is going to be undone by rocks.
May 4th, 2008 09:49 PM
