Obviously Catholic, for they were the only church that Jesus ever founded. Who gave authority to Luther and Calvin? It was their own will/mind or possibly even worse, the Devil. But the Catholic Church was given direct authority by Jesus Christ to Peter in Matthew 16:18. The problem with Protestants is that they forget the fact that the Church is an organic and eternally changing organism. Here is a good analogy, someone plants a mustard seed, and then when it has grown into a bush, tries to find the original mustard seed. It cannot be found, and in the process you have destroyed the whole bush. Also, Protestants break from apostolic succession, whilst every Catholic clergyman can trace his ordination to Peter. This is why Catholicism is the religion of the New Covenant, not Protestantism.
Also, Catholic for me. I'm probably biased by my upbringing, but they're all about ornate ceremony and rituals and such...I was always a sucker for tradition like that.
Gender: Female Location: at the second star to the right
I'm a Protestant and I have to disagree that the Catholic Church is the one founded by Jesus. So much happened politically/religiously between Christ's resurrection and the establishment of an organized church that it's impossible to say whether or not the Catholic Church is EXACTLY what Jesus wanted.
It's my personal belief that God loves and accepts Catholics and Protestants, but I don't believe in purgatory, praying to saints, or confessing my sins to another imperfect person who will tell me the exact way to earn God's forgiveness.
Half of my family is Catholic and the other half is protestant. I have never heard a word out of the Catholics mouth to condemn others to Hell or purgatory. On the other hand, I have heard out of the mouths of Protestant people that the Catholics are just lost.......lost and hopless...and will not make it to heaven because they are counting on works..
__________________ Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before.
Gender: Female Location: at the second star to the right
That's far from what I meant. I myself am married to a Catholic who believes in purgatory. I don't think he's lost or going to hell. I just didn't feel the need to convert because I don't think being one or the other makes a difference when it comes to your relationship with God. It's right for him to be a Catholic and right for me to be a Protestant.
See, the problem with your assumption here is that Protestants never had divine authority (or even apparent divine visions or instructions for that matter) to schism from the Church. It is true that during the time of the Protestant Revolution there was a lot of corruption in the church, but using my analogy above, stemming that plant (the church through excommunications etc.) is a solution, whilst abandoning the plant would be foolish. And the Catholic Church was established at the exact point that Christ "built his church" on Peter in the Gospel of Matthew. From there every Catholic ordination happened and each and every one can be traced down to that event. The result of this is something called Apostolic Succession, where every ordained clergyman can perform the blessed sacraments (eg. Communion, Confession etc...) with Divine sanction. Protestants do not have this sanction, they broke away from it. Therefore they had and have no authority to schism (and judging from the hundreds of Protestant denominations, there is not much in the realm of clarity either). Let me ask, if you do not believe in Purgatory, what happens to those who have committed moderate sins. They cannot go directly to Heaven (for as per the definition of heaven, perfection and holiness, there can be no sin) so do they all go to hell? In that case Heaven is almost impossible to enter and one MUST be a saint to do so. On the point of the sacrament of Confession, the Priest is not one to listen to your sins, but acts as a mediator between you and God. When he provides absolution and penance, he receives both from the Holy Spirit (one person of God in the Trinity). He is also held to never repeat anything he has heard in the Confessional, for if he does he is Excommunicated from the Church automatically. So in fact you are not confessing to another imperfect person, but to God; using the priest as a mediator.
well i was born a protestant.... but really what difference is there, both believe there is a god and jesus only small factors vary.
this is literally religion
Jewish---------------stop believing here, christians start believeing here-------------they stop believing here and the islamics believe from here---------------to here it's all the same timeline, two of which are almost identical in everyway with only slight factors mainly changing
__________________
Lilypop Shots on XBOX
Lilipopshots on insragram
Gender: Female Location: at the second star to the right
"Let me ask, if you do not believe in Purgatory, what happens to those who have committed moderate sins. They cannot go directly to Heaven (for as per the definition of heaven, perfection and holiness, there can be no sin) so do they all go to hell? In that case Heaven is almost impossible to enter and one MUST be a saint to do so. On the point of the sacrament of Confession, the Priest is not one to listen to your sins, but acts as a mediator between you and God. When he provides absolution and penance, he receives both from the Holy Spirit (one person of God in the Trinity). He is also held to never repeat anything he has heard in the Confessional, for if he does he is Excommunicated from the Church automatically. So in fact you are not confessing to another imperfect person, but to God; using the priest as a mediator."---Trans
Let me say upfront that it's easy to get upset when it comes to religion. I'm glad we can have an intelligent discussion about it. I will answer your question about those who have committed "moderate" sins. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, but can go to Heaven through Jesus Christ. Therefore, if you loved God, why would you go to hell? People sin every day in their thoughts, words, and actions. I can't speak for those who go to confession, but it seems to me it would be hard even remember every single sin you've committed between this confession and the last one. Part of why I choose to remain a Protestant is that I don't think a person needs a mediator between themselves and God. I can talk directly to him and he listens directly to me. I confess my sins to him and do my best to not sin anymore even though I know I will fall short. It is because I have accepted Jesus into my life that I'm going to Heaven. Committing sins doesn't condemn me, although it is God's will we make a real effort to not commit them anymore.
Oh, deja vu, we are expecting our first child this spring. When he and I took our premarital counseling, I said it was fine with me rearing my children Catholic. Again, that goes to my belief that nothing is keeping Catholics out of Heaven. I have told my husband I will support our son's Catholic faith as long as he desires to be a Catholic. He will naturally be exposed to what I believe and how I worship, so if he chooses to be a Protestant, we will be supportive of that too.
__________________
Last edited by willofthewisp on Mar 26th, 2008 at 01:44 AM
That is a really, really good question. I'd be willing to bet most other Mormons would say Catholic, because Catholicism didn't originate from a different religion so it has a greater logical chance of being correct. On the other hand, I scratched that argument long ago because I believe any religion could be true if it was inspired by God, regardless of it's technical origins (I hope you're reading this, trans). If fact, looking at the repercussions of religion historically is also pointless because the actions of individuals has nothing to do with the actual doctrine. Protestants are noticeably more preachy then Catholics, but again that has nothing to do with doctrine or policy (if it did I probably wouldn't be a Mormon).
When it comes down to it, Protestantism probably comes closer to my personal beliefs in many ways, but Catholicism seems flexible enough to allow people to search by their own means.
That's interesting. I'm curious to know how that works out. I can see myself in a similar scenario in the future.
One of the problems you have (and most Protestants have) is that you rely on God's mercy solely, whilst He is both eternally merciful AND just. Because of this justice, one must be held accountable for all of his/her sins, offenses against God. Even if you loved God with all your soul, but sinned, then the eternal justice of God would be used in judgement. But there are sins of differing levels of categorization: Venial sins are those sins which are not damnable (cursing for example) and they are removed every time you receive the Precious Body and Blood of Our Lord. The other type of sin, mortal, is damnable but requires three characteristics: it must be a grave matter, the person must be in full control of the event, and the person must know that it is a mortal sin (or at least offensive to God). We are all born with the inherent mortal sin of Adam, for God placed a curse on him and his children, but when one is baptized in the true sacrament, that sin is removed (that is why those outside the Church cannot be saved). The reason for all of this theology is that even after confessing sins, attachments to them may remain; and so the soul "atones" in Purgatory to clean itself of all sin before entering into Heaven. This is why loving God alone cannot get you directly into Heaven; by bringing a soul that has sin into heaven, you degrade the very perfect nature of the Place; therefore a Purgatory must exist (or it is almost impossible to enter into heaven, a scary thought...).
On your point that you can speak directly to God and do not require a "mediator", let me say that you are relying solely on Faith. This is a problem since the only time "faith" and "alone" are ever mentioned next to each other in the Bible is the line, "By faith alone ye are NOT saved" (James 2:26). That is why the Catholic Church and all of its sacraments are necessary for salvation. Also, back to the point of what I said earlier about apostolic succession, Protestants do not have a valid Communion and from the Gospel of John, " Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:54). But since Protestants do not have a valid communion by breaking from apostolic succession, they partake of the Body and Blood unworthily, "Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord." (1 Cor. 11:27). This is why the Catholic Church exists as the sole keeper of the New Covenant in Christ.
And congratulations on your child! I will keep your family in my prayers. God bless.
The problem here on your point that any religion inspired by god can be true (I was listening...don't worry.) is that in the case of Christianity, God incarnate created a Church, His Church, and promised to safeguard it until His return at the end of time. When one scisms from this Church, there is no sanction to do so. Now, the Catholic Church will always reform (it is an organic institution), but to leave it is to leave the Church of God. And even though many Protestants had legitimate secular reasons to schism from the Church, they had no Divine sanction. If any religion inspired by God is true, then they would not ever contradict each other (Catholicism and Protestantism do) or else only one is correct or neither are.
KMC Community Forums
Mar 25th, 2008 08:31 PM
