Is that a serious question? I mean if you take John's statement at face value Presence>>>>>>>>>>Source and it follows their opposite numbers would have the same dynamic.
I don't believe Nekron is the Presence's opposite though, if he was he'd have done more.
__________________
“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."
-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.
Never heard of Ecruos before. But if it's equal to the Source, then it would win. Nekron is not the opposite of the Presence. Despite what John might say, canonically Nekron hasn't done anything to put it on the level of the Presence or the Source.
Nekron is just an avatar of the darkness of the universe. The light is an abomination (cancer imo) to the universe. The universe/multiverse was created at some point by the Presence while the Source seems merely an aspect that embodies the majority of energy that make up the DC universe.
Actually, I prefer this better. But DC seems to favor having the Judeo-Christian god as their top dog. That's what killed Kirby's Source and the New Gods. The have no place in the DC because of stuff like this pushing them aside.
They've always left it ambiguous, purposefully so. I've never seen even a single story that puts one over the other, or that does anything but hint that there is some relationship between the two.
Both the Lucifer and Sandman series seems to hint at the Presence being more power. Lucifer outright ignores the Source while standing on it's shoulder. While in Sandman, Morpheus remarks that Lucifer was only second to the Presence.
He's standing on the shoulder of a Promethean, which is nothing. Countless characters have rested on the wall in their days -- Orion has even ripped someone out of it, as has Superman. Heck, Orion even escaped it himself!
That Lucifer thing was a reference to Swamp Thing, a Veitch fill in, in which Metron and Swamp Thing thought they had pierced the Source but had really just hit an extremely cosmic phenomenon that allows one to view large swathes of creation all at once.
Nice little piece of continuity, and nothing else.
Which still has nothing to do with any sort of hierarchical relationship between the Source and the Presence.
The only thing that really indicates relationships are Mr. Miracle commenting that heaven felt like being in the presence of the source, and the Spectre being able to enter the Source. But, again, entering the source in and of itself isn't a big deal -- Darkseid, Orion, and Stargirl's soul have all forced their way in, and Martian Manhunter was allowed in on one occasion.
I am very hard-pressed to consider that creature a simple Promethean. Why? Because the shoulder you mentioned (the one that Lucifer was standing on) was really the Aleph -- you know, the one place where you can see everything in creation at once: http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/5514/luciferl.jpg
Lucifer ignored the Source itself just so he could reach the Aleph in hopes of finding Michael. Regardless, it was not the mediocre feat you seem to be making it our to be.
I posted some scans a while back:
__________________
Last edited by Galan007 on Mar 6th, 2010 at 09:12 PM
Yeah, I'm well aware of that scene. It is very obvious that that was supposed to be a 'simple' promethean. It's a giant stone looking creature that appears in conjunction with the source being mentioned. It doesn't get any more straightforward.
It's absolutely a mediocre feat, yes. Ignoring the Source doesn't mean he traveled THROUGH the Source to reach it, it means he didn't particularly care about trying to tap into it, or enter it, as the Prometheans did.
Again, this is a throwback to an issue of Swamp Thing, hence the little bubble with the image of Swamp Thing in there. In that issue, Metron and Swamp Thing try to gain entry into the Source, think they do. Metron goes to Darkseid with what he's seen and done, and Darkseid laughs at him, calling an Aleph a "parlor trick"
^ The fact that the Aleph literally WAS that creature's shoulder should be more than enough to say it wasn't some random Promethean. That is my only point.
Hmm well after reading more of Swamp Thing Reunion it would seem you are right. Lucifer never went through and found The Source at all, we can clearly see where The Source resides is behind Lucifer, Metron and the others aka "The Final Barrier". The being Lucifer is standing on seems to be somewhat related to whatever the Transmuter is doing (but knowbody really knows.) http://yfrog.com/3dimage5sgj http://yfrog.com/b6image6pj
Perhaps you'd be so kind as to spell out what your point is, then?
I think it's pretty obvious that the creature is a Promethean Giant, especially given the context of talking about the "Source" and the Swamp Thing issue. I also don't think it matters in regards to how impressive the feat is, because regardless Lucifer isn't doing anything there.
KMC Community Forums
Mar 5th, 2010 11:10 PM
