the DC team should win handily having Michael, Lucifer, and Spectre but then all of the on pannel feats crap comes up. So once again im giving it an even split 5/10
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Last edited by Galan007 on Oct 1st, 2006 at 01:27 AM
Maximum number of contenders
Let's keep it maximum 3 versus 3, with the exception of teams. More than 2 characters in a match is hard to discuss, threads like that often dissappear in 2 days, imagine 8 or 10 characters involved...
(Now, in some cases, an exception or two might be made with some theads. It's usually a judgement call on the moderator's part. But, of course, if a thread has like 25+ characters, it WILL be closed. NO exceptions)
i see you changed some stuff around, well Spectre at FP=ALL the Wrath of God, and as long as Michael is favored by God, and Lucifer is in his unweakened state the DC team wins handily... Remember we are talking about beings that are stated as the top 3 most powerful beings in the DCU existance
Lucifer and Micheal have done nothing to prove themselves to be able to defeat the Living Tribunal, even together....
Lucifer's greatest feat was creating a Universe, which Living Tribunal can do with ease....Lucifer took time and energy to commit to that project, while LT has created and erased realities on panel with ease.
Warlock with IG may find a large challenge with Lucifer and Micheal together....however, IG gives you power over more than one universe, and it is unclear whether the amount of universes you overcome are truly infinite, or limitted...well, they are called the Infinity Gems, so ill assume infinite.
Spectre's greatest feat was connecting with every sentient being in DC's multiverse...nice, but nothing that LT or Thanos with HOTU can't do....
Thanos with HOTU alone can destroy Mike, Lucifer, and Spectre....
and what has LT done that would indicate he could defeat the Brothers? (see what i just did there?)
time and energy? if you read the lucifer series you would see that it took little to no effort for Lucifer to make a universe
again you think that just because Lucifer only made a single universe, that thats all he could have made, when in truth a single universe was all he wanted
they probably can, but how does that equate to them beating the FULL wrath of god?
and how would Thanos beat them? He would be fighting 3 beings that are all heavily favored by God himself, death has no hold on them........ they exist outside of existance
im not trying to argue, i just want you to understand that Marvel wouldnt win as easily as u think
Erase and create realities, trap Beyonder in a single universe, turn Silver Surfer into a universe, nullify the powers of the IG
(the IG happens to be multiversal in power), the only thing that was above him was HOTU and TOAA...
Yes..it took him time to create the stars and the cosmos...he spent energy on the project....
Just because he wasn't exhausted, does not mean it took him no effort...
LT can manifest realities instantly, and erase them just as fast....Lucifer has to gather enough energy for both...
Can you prove he can create a multiverse? Because he has never done so, and i dont remember him claiming that power...
Thanos with HOTU is equal to TOAA, Marvel's "God"
DC and Vertigo's God is limitted and flawed. The last issue of Lucifer, Yahweh himself admitted he was shaped by external forces...he is imperfect, and not complete in himself.
The Presence' counterpart is the GEB, which automatically makes it a force of flaws...
So what...Death has no hold on Thanos either....nor on Adam Warlock...what's your point ?
Thanos with HOTU can MAKE them subject to nullification...Thanos with HOTU did more than Lucifer or Micheal did in thier entire series.
They do not exist outide of existance, although they can....matters not. REality Gem can take care of that (class reality gem, not current) and so can HOTU
And to make something clear...they do not live outside of "existance" per say...they can step outside CREATION and survive in the NULL VOID...so can LT, Thanos with HOTU, Adam Warlock with IG, and so many other characters, its not even funny..
Heck, fkn Animora from Crossgen Comics survived 500 years of imprisonment in a null void....it doesn't impress me that Lucifer and Micheal can do the same.
I do understand that thier defeat will not be easy....Lucifer is highly manipulative....his words may sway Thanos or Adam Warlock, but will have NO EFFECT on LT, since LT only obeys TOAA....
And give me a break about Micheal's power....he couldnt even defeat those IDIOT Titans who attacked the Silver City
when did LT ever trap pre-ret beyonder in a universe?
and what do u think is above the DC team?
the only reason it took him any time is because he was recreating the cosmos in the exact way God did (hence the whole 7 days thing)
and how do we know that it took "no" effort for LT to turn surfer into a universe?
what? in book 6 i seem to remember lucifer erasing a reality, and then reshaping it how he saw fit with little effort
can you prove that he couldnt have made a multiverse if he wanted to? the most impressive feat the LT has done was negate the IG and turn SS into a universe
mabye equal in power, but nowhere near TOAA's omniscents.
shaped by outside forces could be refering to the writers who drew him..... that statment is hardly enough to call God imperfect
How so? its a universal balance GEB and God are the same (just on the opposite side of the coin) much like lucifer/michael
point is that Thanos even with THOTU cant destroy something that cannot be killed
again tell me how him doing more equates to a win
are you attempting to say that lucifer/michael dont exist outside of existance?
nope, they exist outside of creation, but they can choose to step into reality if they choose to
500 years, lucifer is 10billion yrs old
right, lucifer can manipulate all of em except LT
at this point in the story michael was no longer in gods graces, because at this time god was absent
The post ret-conned Beyonder was banished into a separate reality by the Living Tribunal in the Guardians of the Galaxy issues that included Korvac...
LT was tired of Beyonder manipulating universes to appease his boredom.
Yahweh and Presence, although they have proven to be imperfect and flawed. I am not saying TOAA is any better, but so far TOAA has not been presented in a way that would prove him any inferior to Yahweh/Presence.
Nice Try, but there is no true explanation for it. It took him time, because he HAD to exist within the Universe itself to shape it. The Universe consists of Time and Space, which he had to become involved in.
The last thing he wants to do is copy God. How much about Lucifer do you actually know?
Besides, his universe was geocentric, since Earth was the only planet he personally addressed...
I never said it took no effort..i said he does it instantly. He has never needed to take that much time or drama to create or destroy a universe. He judges, and it happens.
Lucifer created his universe artistically and beautifully, but it took obvious time, effort, and thought.
He re-wrote the rules of reality, not erased it. If you have scans to back up this assertion, please use them.
There is no official clarification that Lucifer can or can't create a multiverse. But claiming that he CAN when he has never done so, nor claimed to do so, is a flawed and tired argument.
IG itself has negated the effect of the Ultamate Nullifier which was erasing realities left and right. IG was used to stop it. LT, however, can negate IG itself.
Therefore Living Tribunal's personal power is beyond a multiversal nature.
Living Tribunal also made a judgement which White Pheonix of the Crown HAD to follow....WPOTC re-created an erased universe.
I am aware, but in terms of raw power, he was TOAA's equal. TOAA just happens to be much much much smarter, therefore Thanos or ANYONE with HOTU has no chance against TOAA.
It's left up to interpretation, and your point holds no solid validity....it's a good point, but proves nothing. If Yahweh was perfect, he'd need not be shaped by anything, he'd already be complete in himself.
The simple fact that he is a comic book character, created by imperfect human writers, is enough to state his imperfection...i am saying this, since you seem to want to get literal.
The Great Evil Beast is evil....therefore flawed, and since it is the counterpart of the Presence, that makes the Presence flawed as well....
Unless you think something Evil can be perfect...
Yes he can. He can make the reality such that Lucifer will be destroyed. Do you mean to tell me that Death is more powerful than HOTU ? I highly doubt it....
With HOTU power, or EVEN the IG, you can rewrite reality to your fashion, so that someone who is immortal becomes subject to death. It is not beyond the ability of someone with HOTU or even IG, so please....stop restating an argument that holds no validity.
Does not equate to an automatic win...its evidense of the probability that Thanos with HOTU can do so much more than Lucifer or Michael can...
The Brothers did nothing that isn't any more impressive than the feats that Thanos has accomplished in his shorter life.
They can step outside creation into the null void, but still exist...therefore, they do not literally exist outide existance, they exist outside creation. Big Difference..
So what? Tons of characters can step outside creation and survive in a Void of infinite emptiness....it's been done before....
I know this...this is the point I was making earlier. What exactly are you trying to argue ? You seem to be agreeing with me.
Lucifer is not 10 Billion years old, he ruled Hell for 10 Billion Years...he is far older than that.
And what is your point ? Animora survived in a null void for 500 years....yet she isn't as powerful as Lucifer.
What point are you trying to make that Lucifer and Micheal can survive in a null void? Far less powerful characters have done the SAME THING...it's not that impressive.
I know. That is because LT is not a sentient being like Thanos or Adam Warlock....LT cannot be manipulated because he lacks the emotions and logic that is required for manipulation.
LT can and will only obey the TOAA, and nothing else. Lucifer will be wasting his time trying to manipulate LT.
Imperfect? how so? Just because they have opposites of each other? sorry that Imperfect thing is getting old
He shapped it becuase he wanted it to be just as perfect if not more so then God's why do you think he choose to create it in 7 days?
not how god acts, but he wanted to make his creation just as great....Read some Lucifer comics
Far more then you obviously
What? there were numerous other planets mentioned throughout the series, in fact an epic battle with Lucifer took place on a completely different planet in book #4
I dont needs scans my friend..... in book #6 Lucifer erases all of a certain reality and then reshapes it differently then before.... wether or not u believe this makes little difference to me
as is it to say that LT can create more then a universe
and????? i never said Lucifer could or couldnt beat LT, its just not as easy as people make it sound
and how do we know THOTU was TOAA's equal? because thanos said he was that powerful? because remember that even if Thanos just had a fraction of infinity, he still had infinity, just to a lesser degree.
and you "point" about God being imperfect holds no validity either, so we are even
Yeah thats what you keep arguing, and it makes no sense
it depends how you define "perfect"
i never said that, but thanos couldnt absorb death... why? because she exists outside of existance
so why didnt Thanos absorb death or warlock? ohhhh yeah because they were outside of existance
really? thats new..... are you making stuff up?
blah
i had to correct a previous statement you made, thats all
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Last edited by Galan007 on Oct 1st, 2006 at 05:00 PM
It should be like:
Thanos w/ Heart vs GEB
Full power [backed up by the Presence] Spectre vs Living Tribunal
Warlock w/ IG vs Lucifer
Warlock w/ I-IG vs. Michael
1. I read vertigo comics now. -- But, hey keep living in the past while the rest head for the future.
It's like saying: For Galactus, Spider-man is trash.
Or: For Living Tribunal the Eternity is trash.
ect.
The point was:
ou can line up a billion Lucifers, they still wont hurt the Beast.
So if Thanos equal's the beast. Well you get the pic.
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Oct 1st, 2006 01:10 AM
