I have no problem with Owen winning, but I am curious how he would do so?
The best feats I remember from Owen(correct me if I'm wrong) are:
-Easily fixing multiversal damage Beyonder had caused.
-Discharging a blast that could have supposedly destroyed billions of dimensions.
-Causing multiversal tremors in his battle with Beyonder.
-Shielding himself and the heroes from a blast from Beyonder that stretched across the entire multiverse.
Additionally, Dream(who is a multiversal force in his own right) stated that Lucifer was FAR more powerful than himself: (please log in to view the image)
This statement was cemented when Dream outright admitted that he was scared of Lucifer: (please log in to view the image)
ie. Lucifer>>>multiversal entities.
However, if superiority to the cosmic hierarchy(inc. LT) constitutes a battle feat, then Owen should win I guess... /shrug
Whoops. Yeah, you're right.
__________________
Last edited by Galan007 on Dec 1st, 2013 at 03:19 PM
Owen also gathered the power of the whole multiverse to put that shield on his house iirc, but point still stands: being more powerful than LT (although, imo, he weaker back then, he was still above conceptual/abstract beings) and the other cosmic beings combined, should give Owen the win.
Besides, Lucifer has at the very least low showings (being hurt by Gabriel's sword, not able to leave Yahweh's creation, unable to stop the basanos' attack on his cosmos, leaving Musubi to deal with the host of heaven ........... for some reason, among other things), Owen does not, at least not the version we're using (meaning the period between Secret Wars 1 #10 and his retcon in FF #319)
It's not in Owen's character to duplicate those very situational low showings, though(he's not the brightest fella around, after all)-- so I don't think they matter that much. He'd almost certainly try blasting Lucifer to death, which I don't think would be a full-proof tactic for reasons I already mentioned.
Like I said: I have no problem with him winning. I just want to know how he does? Or do you think he wins mainly because he was stated to be superior to LT(and co.)?
__________________
Last edited by Galan007 on Dec 1st, 2013 at 03:39 PM
What exactly did Lucifer tank that was so impressive? Michael's "Big Bang" blast? Who cares? Last time I checked that was Lucifer's thing. "God's Will" shaped "God's Power" and formed a new creation.
MM would annihilate Lucifer's creation WITH Lucifer in it. He'd destroy Yahweh too.
__________________
..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
It's debatable whether that feat is a purely durability feat or also an energy manipulation feat. Because a vastly weakened Lucifer(who was getting his sh1t pushed in by inferior blasts of the Demiurgos from a similarly vastly weakened Michael) survived a similar blast when Michael died and transferred his power to Elaine, who went kaboom because of her inexperience at dealing with such vast energies.
You do realize you made the exact same argument for Lucifer? In the exact same post no less:
Point noted. On a second note, the likelihood of the kabooming Demiurgos being maniped is far more likely than it being tanked outright though.
Nobody had mentioned those feats prior to you posting the dialogue with Dream etc. I want to say "I told ya so" for some reason, but I'll restrain myself from doing so for the moment.
You *could* say that, but it'd just make you look like a buffoon for trying to put your own little 'twist' on my posts.
This was the comment operator made before I even posted in this thread:
By his ownaccord, operator was referring mostly to the statements made regarding Owen's powerset-- hence why I posted 'comment feats' on Lucifer's behalf in response(note that I never tried using those comment feats for anything other than to show people that Lucifer also has them.)
Seriously, why are you acting like you know what I meant... More than I know what I meant? It's silly, and borders on trolling.
__________________
Last edited by Galan007 on Dec 3rd, 2013 at 06:56 PM
Basically saying, he didn't post any feats. You were the one who brought it up.
Operator elaborated upon it in the other posts. You were the one who clung to this idea that MM wins based off superiority towards the Marvel Cosmic Hierarchy, as seen by your attempt to correlate that with Lucifer's superiority to an Endless.