The Volturi have caught word that there exists another group of Vampires in the New World that have allegedly claimed themselves as the royal and supreme authority. Having been around for 3000 years, the Volturi will recognize no such authority, and in fact the existence of such a coven is seen as an act of war.
Both covens are now intent on wiping out the other.
Who prevails?
The Volturi
- Aro
- Caius
- Marcus
- Jane
- Alec (Blocks the senses)
- Demetri (Tracker)
- Felix (Speed Tank)
- Heidi
- Other Volturi guards seen in the film.
The Underworld Coven
- Viktor
- Markus
- Amelia
- Selene
- The High Council (Ones killed along with Amelia in Underwold I)
Additionally, Carlisle, with grim seriousness, said that no human army could stand against 20 newborn vampires.
Additionally, how is a bladed weapon going to cut through something that is like a solid rock? The blade will dull and bounce off of their flesh.
We can take it a step further, once Breaking Dawn comes out because Carlisle says that no needles can pierce vampire skin (they are useless) and addition to them stating that only vampires and werewolves can rip throug the flesh (properties of their teeth.)
If you'll notice, when a vampire's head is ripped off, a break is made, first, with the teeth and THEN the head is ripped off. I cannot support my position, fully, until Breakin Dawn comes out, though...but I can use the evidences.
But, wait, they shatter eachother's faces (not supposed to happen), so I take that back...but Breaking Dawn will shed some light on the strength thing.
I'll take the bullet proof thing at face value, but Carlisle's statement about the army doesn't hold any weight.
No proof of them tanking heavy artillery, explosives, etc.
Because with sufficient force a bladed weapon can break solid rocks? Not being pierced by a needle =/= not being hurt by a sword wielded by someone with super strength/speed.
They are pretty dang strong, from what I can tell.
Not as strong as amped Selene, Marcus, or Michael, of course. They are on a completely different level.
They do not have very big strength feats, but I'd put them around Blade's level of a 1 ton lifter.
I'd put the "supers" around 3 tons based on Marcus' showing on being able to knock around the truck and lifting the large portcullis by William's tomb.
Well, considering that Carlisle is probably the most educated being on the planet and he was speaking with grim sincerity, I have a hard time doubting his words.
Which is why I said this:
"so "explosives" are the Underwolrd Vamps best bet."
Since the Underwold vamps are not very far into the superhuman category, no, it will not be nearly enough.
And the needle thing was to show potential hardness. They are definitely harder than granite, as they are often referred to, but they are also refered to as being as hard as diamonds.
I would like to think of them being somewhere between the two.
But, you're very dead set on the Twivamps losing any fight they are in, it seems. Why?
The Twivamps are superior in every way possible, over the Underworld vamps.
So...what? You have a hard time doubting Carlisle, but you think explosives are Underworld's best choice, implying that you think explosives may work, I don't get it.
Anyway, I doubt any Vampires have gone up against a modern human army, since, you know, that would expose them. I don't see Vamps doing to well against F-22's.
Why do they need to be far into the superhuman category?
I wasn't aware that I was, but it seems like you know something that I don't, so I think you may be better able to answer than I am.
Yeah, I see a suprise attack against the Volturi, using high-end explosives, as their best bet.
But, I forgot that the Twi-vamps have ultra-senses so a suprise attack won't work. So I take it back.
Still, strap on a large quantity of high explosives to a vampire and I could see them being blown to bits.
Also, I do not see how a vampire could survive a vacuum bomb or other type of high-end bombs.
But, more to the point, the Vampires have evaded human detection for thousands of years. That's mostly due to the Volturi's efforts. It's hard to make a case for modern military when they are supposed to be "undetectable" by our normal measures.
How are the militaries going to narrow down who and where the vamps are? How can they accomplish that when a single vampire could solo for quite a long time?
The only option the humans have is blanket bombing...but that wouldn't work against the Cullen Coven because Alice would forsee that.
Additionally, one vampire could easily take out an entire military base of humans.
Because the forces you are talking about are really really high up there. Well beyond beings that are barely superhuman in strength.
Or, are you claiming that they can slice through them?
If so, how did you come to this conclusion? If you did come to that conclusion, where is your math? How did you arrive at a hardness for the vampires? Where did you do this testing?
Sure seems like it with your comments in this thread and the other.
On the contrary, it seems like you know something I don't.
I cannot see 5 times strength with the sturdiest blade doing anything but bounce off of the flesh of the vampires.
I could see, however, a massive massive sword (like Guts sword) cutting through them.
How can the Underworld vampires cut throug the Twilight vampires with this tiny swords of theirs?
Hmm. Markus pulling down that helicopter is a pretty strong feat.
I just randomly looked up a Blackhawk chopper, and its "max take off weight" is about 11 tons. From the little I read, thats the maximum amount of weight it can carry to be airworthy when it takes off. So having a little over 11 tons doesn't mean its physically too heavy to lift off.
So, I'm guessing, Markus had to exceed that to pull it down from the air when its trying to get away.
........
Now the other thing I want to discuss is whether Underworld Elders can break Twilight Vampires.
Instinctively the answer is no, but it was something that I was annoyed with in the 3rd film. And that is that their strength and durability are grossly disproportionate. In the large battle scene, vamps were casually punching heads and ripping off limbs like nothing. This indicates their strength is much greater than their durability , or vice versa, durability is much less than strength (compared to human standards, since you can't just punch someone's head off in one swing). So what I want to discuss is, whether you guys think Underworld vampires have sufficient strength to do some damage.
I'm thinking the "Supers" as you call it probably could.
Why would they need to narrow it down? The statement that the new born vamps taking on an army didn't say they'd be hiding in among regular people, it just said they could take any army. You're adding stipulations that did not exist within the statement.
Why would they need to blanket bomb with they just make surgical strikes with predator drones? What Alice could see has nothing to do with if their physical abilities allow them to beat an army, which is what we're discussing.
Taking out a military base =/= beating an army.
How high would the forces need to be based on what we've seen of their durability? I'm not claiming anything aside from a super strong individual with super speed is going to cause significantly more damage swinging a sword than a needle is, which is what you've brought to show their hardness. How hard are the vampires, what's their greatest feat of durability against piercing objects? All I've seen is conjecture.
What comments would those be, that I don't think they can beat a modern army?
What instances of durability are you basing your opinion of someone with 5 times strength not being able to cut them?
Show me something of substance regarding their durability to piercing damage and I may agree.
No, the humans would need to figure out where they are.
Cause they need to know where they are, first.
Taking out the military heads and heads of state would be, though. That'd be far easier especailly since the vampires would have far more planning time.
You tell me. I think it will bounce off just like it would do to a rock. You think it will cut them. Why?
Sugical steel, in a very small cylindrical form, would have a really good chance of punching into the flesh. A vampire is superhuman, so they'd have an even better chance to stab it, very hard, with perfect accuracy. It just bends and does nothing.
Additionally, where is this evidence that a katana or claymore is going to cut through something that has a hardness somewhere between granite and a diamond?
Hardness appears to be greater than a 9 on the hardness scale, considering this needle measure. Surgical steel is somewhere between an 8.5 and a 9.5 (I could have sworn it was a low 9, but I couldn't find anything. I did find something about industrial steel being an 8.)
Mythbusters trying to break swords. They had one wind up all the way to somethng like 5 times harder than the best swordsmen could do. Considering the vampire flesh is going to be comparable to super durable steel, it's a fair measure.
I don't know what you want from me, actually.
__________________
Last edited by dadudemon on Mar 12th, 2011 at 09:14 AM
We covered this already: he didn't have to exert 11 tons of force, at all.
If he exerted anymore force than his own body weight, he would have lifted himself off of the ground.
Do you want me to find that reply? I think it's relevant. I'll leave it up to your since this is your thread and I don't want to crap up your thread with past arguments you and I have had.
........
I don't think they could damge them.
I've shown that a dude with average vampire strength is a 100+ class, in the other thread. I would have to agree, based on the movies only, that their durability is less than their strength. I'd put Ol' Eddie's neck at about 15 inches, circumferences. That puts his neck at 6" diameter. Consider you can get "purchase" on the chin and head, I'm sure you could tear the head off with that much force...but I'm just guessing in the dark.
Damn, you're right. I could have sworn that was you.
No. You're thinking "inertia". It does have quite a bit more inertia than the dude, but a helicopter is floating in the air. If a really heavy person pulls on a rope connected to a helicopter, it would move down quite easily.
Here's the original post:
__________________
Last edited by dadudemon on Mar 12th, 2011 at 11:56 AM
But I would imagine, the chopper would be trying to fly away (i.e opposite direction/up) after the crew realize something is pulling it down?
Also, I don't know jack crap about how a chopper operates, but I would imagine that it has some sort of mechanism to automatically stabilize itself to maintain 'hovering' statically? Like say if it somehow senses downward force is becoming greater, it will compensate? I mean rescue choppers have to pull stuff up, yet it more or less maintains its position.
Then theres also the point that Markus pulls it down quite quickly, so the force must have been considerable.
KMC Community Forums
Mar 11th, 2011 07:38 AM
