I think Force solidly goes to team 1, and sabers solidly goes to the B team. Mace Windu is out of Vader's league when it comes to a lightsaber duel, and I would argue the same applies to Galen vs. the three masters. Indeed, Windu could come close to soloing if it came down to a duel. His performance against Sidious isn't something either has replicated.
Let's also pretend that there were no beneficial circumstances behind Windu defeating Sidious, or that it was heavily implied and inferable that Sidious threw the fight anyway
Without Vaapad channeling Sidious' lightning, Windu would have died very early in that fight. Not to mention the other effects of Vaapad, none of which he'll have so great an amp from here. Maul was able to fight evenly with Mace. As was Talzin. Vaapad is not the solve-all everyone wants it to be.
...yeah, so right after you accuse our side of wanking, you run over and postulate a conspiratorial master plan of Palpatine's that is not only entirely unsupported in any of the numerous depictions and mediums of it throughout the Canon, but is actually contradicted by Lucas's commentary?
I've no reason to deal with you. Move along.
Yeah, let's pretend that Vader or Marek could survive in a Force fight against Palpatine, or that vaapad is somehow not a factor in this fight.
Oh, what the f*ck does Sidious's lightning have to do with Windu's performance in their lightsaber duel again?
Why not? Because you say so? Is Vader not a dark sider?
Maul's power fluctuates, and as a lightsaber duelist he is superior to both members of team 1. More to the point, we are talking about RotS Windu here, a fine point that clearly sailed over your head.
Let's pretend that Talzin is some sort of weakling.
Windu doesn't need vaapad to defeat either member of team 1 in sabers, when he has repeatedly been described as Dooku's equal, even before RotS.
Last edited by Skybreaker on Oct 25th, 2014 at 04:56 PM
If we assume, that Palpatine threw the fight (which I believe he did), besides that one duel, Mace has only average showings.
Nick Gillard stated him to be level 9 duelist, but it was a years ago. Canon has changed from that moment.
After TCW and SoD, it should be clear, that Mace is out of Sidious leage - even in terms of pure sabers. Mace couldn't find any advantage over Talzin, he couldn't easily forced Maul onto defensive. In a game "Republic Heroes" he fough Dooku with Obi-Wan on his side, and wasn't able to beat him (i'm wondering how long this duel was however) or even disarmed him.
The same Talzin, who had Dooku's body under her full control, was no match for Sidious. He just destroyed her in saber fight (and it should be noted, that Sidious probably didn't want to kill Dooku during that fight).
In the old canon Windu wasn't able to dominate Ventress in a scale that Yoda or Dooku could.
And he fought Bulq on equal terms in saber fight.
In "Star Wars: The Clone Wars Magazine" he couldn't easily beat Ventress as well.
Let's pretend I said they could, and let's pretend I didn't bring up how it matters much less than it did against Sidious.
Because Windu would have never beaten Sidious otherwise. Taking the Force out of the picture severely cripples any opponent. But considering in sabers, Windu is Dooku level at best, I thought this would be apparent.
No, because Vader's "inner darkness" isn't the same as Palpatine's. One is the saturation of the Dark Side itself, regardless of Palpatine's own ability to use it, and other is Vader.
RotJ Vader? Or Marek for that matter? Lulz.
Um...what? RotS Windu was apparent to everyone. RotS Windu is the same Windu from SoD. He didn't jump any tiers in a month.
Let's pretend she's known for her swordsmanship
He kind of does since both are his piers in sabers and far outstripe him in the Force.
Vader and Marek are both high level swordsmen. They easily meet or surpass Windu, RotJ Vader especially.
So your point is meaningless, then. Windu needed vaapad to defeat Sidious; this is nothing new. How the hell does this mean that he couldn't defeat Marek or Vader?
Irrelevant. You quoted my assertion that Windu could take either in sabers. Your inability to read does begin to annoy people.
Firstly, I am amused by your implication that being "dooku level at best" in sabers is somehow a handicap against two foes that are not at all "dooku level" in sabers. Secondly, I am amused by your pretending that vaapad isn't going to give Windu an advantage at all in this fight.
Complete speculation on your part. It's more accurate to say that Darth Sidious is more powerful than Vader, and so Windu would not receive the same amp drawing on Vader's energies. Of course, it should be obvious to you that Windu wouldn't need such an amp for the same reason he would not receive one; because Vader is not as powerful as Palpatine (duh?).
Deal with it. RotJ Vader is by authorial fiat not the same duelist as his pre-suit self. Windu > RotS Anakin.
He was powerful enough to take on Sidious by RotS.
And you know it to be inferior to Vader's because...?
How the f*ck are they his peers in sabers, when Galen Marek could hardly even defeat Shaak Ti in a duel?
I don't know what the f*ck you mean by "high level swordsmen". I do know that Vader doubted his ability to stand a chance against Palpatine even with Marek at his side. I also know that Windu was able to defeat said Palpatine. This is nothing new; Windu >> Vader.
Yes, it has. Since TCW is included in the new Databank (which always based on "G-canon"). There is no G, C or others canons anymore. At this moment we have a Canon and the Legends, that's all.
Does not negate Windu's victory in the lightsaber duel. It also does not change the fact that Windu shriveled up Palpatine's face permanently. That Palpatine was being theatric doesn't change the fact that Windu kicked his ass.
Oct 25th, 2014 04:16 PM
