Hm, it's kinda hard to say when the 'start of the war' is, the rebellion slowly built into existence... and I don't think we really know the military assets the Rebels have at that point either.
Registered: Jul 2015
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If this is troop-to-troop I'm going to have lean towards Shadow Collective. Even when outnumbered by the rebels they have superior armor, weapons, etc. They are Mandalorian warriors after all; and this has been proven when they fought grievous's droid armies in SoD.
Space battle wise, depending on what ships the rebels have managed to acquire, probably rebels. Those MC80s vs little space fighters
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The early Rebel Alliance is most likely before Yavin, that said they more than likely win at space as...I don't think the SC had any noteworthy space fighting vessels.
As far as ground is concerned...that is probably in their favor far as tacticians are concerned. By this point, the Rebels have guys like Carlist Rieekan and Crix Madine, Jan Dodonna and Garm Bel. Aside from Maul, I don't recall any noteworthy tacticians for the SC.
There's also the issue, that while the SC was able to battle Grevious' forces...lets remember that the Rebel Alliance is an entirely different foe, they don't just go charging into straight on engagements like the CIS.
They'll use ambush tactics, hit and run, sabotage and all that.
You also have the fact, that they have their own SpecForces which give them a great diversity in what they are capable of.
If this is galaxy spanning, then the RA is just gonna slowly wear down the SC doing hit and runs, ambushing supplies, striking on key critical resource points and so on. They aren't stupid enough to engage a full scale.
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Last edited by Zenwolf on Aug 18th, 2015 at 02:48 AM
Eh but as far as tactics go, were they noteworthy? I don't recall much from either of them or at least nothing that would completely outclass the tacticians that the Alliance has.
Registered: Jul 2014
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Their tacticians won't "outclass" the rebels, but their troops blow them away. Each member of Death Watch performs better than the rebellions SpecForce, they're pretty insane.
A squad of Death Watch forces that in all likelihood didn't hit triple digits decimated Grievous' force of well over 40,000 droids.
Add in the Nightbrothers, Black Sun, the Hutt Cartel and the other minor crime syndicates, which all swore allegiance to Maul.... And the Rebel Alliance is done.
Also remember that the Black Sun supposedly had a fleet that could hold off any assault from Grievous, so the Shadow Collective has a navy.
Again though, the Rebellion isn't stupid to engage full scale battles as I noted. So the SC having better troops don't mean much, plus I wouldn't say they blow them away.
It's not like the Rebellion haven't been the underdogs anyway, so this would be nothing new for them.
Registered: Mar 2014
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Also, it's worth noting that I did not see a single regular battle droid in any of that army of droids that fought the Mandalorians. Most of them looked like commando droids.
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>implying Maul alone isn't enough. (please log in to view the image)
But there's also Talzin in the background, or Viszla depending on when we're taking the SC. The Death Watch are far more tactically capable than the Rebels.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
There were regular B1s,SBDs, Droidekas and Magnaguards there.
Also I'm gonna point out one thing, that battle that many like to bring up, the SC had the advantage of terrain, a base and heavy firepower in the form of ground based laser cannons.
There's also the fact that again...the CIS just likes to send waves of droids at their enemies to overwhelm them.
Wanna know what then happened? The CIS won that battle regardless despite the fact they didn't have the tech of nothing more than blasters and overwhelming numbers. Sure Grevious lost all his forces, but again...that was a straight up engagement.
Jeez people just because the SC has DW Mandos doesn't make this an instant win for them.
They are fighting a completely different enemy here, that and the fact later on, the remaining SC was overwhelmed and beaten yet again by the CIS.
So let's not talk as if the SC is some unbeatable force just because it has Mandalorians.
Are they good? Yes
Did they defeat the CIS droids while sustaining heavy loses themselves? Yes
Are they fighting a straight droid force here? No
Are they fighting an under handed, guerrilla based faction? Yes
Last edited by Zenwolf on Aug 18th, 2015 at 05:35 PM
Viszla running the Death Watch and taking over Mandalore and all that good stuff, as well as being Mandalore alone is enough to seal it for me. They're kind of the best soldiers in Star Wars, even better than clone troopers, who I'd also wager are better than Rebels.
Talzin orchestrated a lot of what happened in Son of Dathomir, as far as her and Maul were concerned, so yeah she's pretty smart too.
I don't know if they do, but given that any given Mandalorian is packing a lot of explosives and flight I'd say that isn't an issue.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
But what resistance did Mandalore really offer when the DW decided to take it over?...It's fine and all that they took over Mandalore, but wasn't it moreso a pacifistic planet at the time and didn't only they take over because they wormed their way in as apart of some big plan?
It's fine they took over Mandalore, but it wasn't really anything via combat related. They just turned the people on their side to take control.
So then you're saying Talzin should be considered apart of the SC? Making this already more in favor of the SC?
Alright...fine then, the SC win because they have 3 powerful Force Users.
It actually does make an issue, because vehicles can provide a lot of support and cover a lot of ground much better, enabling for ambush tactics, hit and runs, so on and so forth. Also having a great technology output via scanners, laser cannons, heavy armor and so on, great maneuverability and so on.
But it seems I'm alone in this because DW Mandos can't be beaten despite the fact that they have..
So I guess I'm done here, since I'm alone in this thinking the Rebels have a shot.
Last edited by Zenwolf on Aug 18th, 2015 at 05:56 PM
Well, Bo-Kotan lead the insurgence of her own DW troops alongside Obi-Wan Kenobi, so she does have some tactical prowess.
That said, i'd like to remind you that Crix didn't join the Rebellion until later in to the GCW so the rebels don't have the advantage of their best agent.
Either way, the rebel forces have a nice squad and tactics, if they play smart, which they always do, they'll win for sure.
Crix defected shortly after the Battle of Yavin, I was assuming we were going with that timeframe seeing as the Rebel Alliance was more or less all there.
TFU timeframe seems to still have splintered off groups.
Though Kota is yes, forgot about him.
But this is all moot cause apparently everyone here thinks DW Mandos > Everyone else, despite the evidence pointing not as so, plus they apparently not only have Maul n Savage but Talzin too
Last edited by Zenwolf on Aug 18th, 2015 at 08:06 PM
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
It's not just that, the rebellion just fall short in every regard :/
Force Users? Shadow Collective.
Elite Units? Death Watch > SpecForce
Standard Units? Underworld mercenaries outnumber and outskill the rebel troops.
Technology advantage? Shadow Collective has the entirety of the underworld, and Black Sun's "Limitless funding and reach".
Tacticians? I mean I guess you can argue the rebellion tacticians are better simply due to the SC's lack of exposure, but even then, the SC simply perform better at the tactics that would be employed. They're better at shadow warfare than the rebels are...
Aug 17th, 2015 08:26 AM
