Luke Skywalker is holistically above Palpatine, who is substantially above Valkorion, who can curbstomp Vaylin. So Luke beats Valkorion and Vaylin is a trivial factor.
May give a more detailed case later.
__________________ Join the new Star Wars vs. forum: Suspect Insight Forums (not url'd for spam prevention)
Multiple sources, including Lucas, Vader, and Palpatine himself affirm that Luke Skywalker has the potential to substantially surpass Sidious (I'm being lazy and not posting sources atm but you can ask for whichever). Indeed, in the RotJ novelization Luke peers into Sidious's mind and senses palpable fear of Luke's power to a degree pretty uncharacteristic of the Sith Lord. That piece of evidence, along with the others, acts as if Luke Skywalker could practically surpass Palpatine in power, e.g. his greater potential is no mere on-paper possibility. Given that Luke is in his sixties by the latest we see him in Legends, has a history of growing in power at extraordinary rates (e.g. ESB -> RotJ), and has had extensive experience, combat training and study of the Force, it is far more likely than not, especially when considering thematic factors, that Luke has surpassed Palpatine at some point before the end of FotJ. If you have Palpatine > Valkorion, that should be enough (while this ABC scaling doesn't always work perfectly, in this case Luke has experience going against uber-sorcerers who prefer to fight from a distance, even those more powerful than himself at that point in time, so I don't see why he would be uniquely badly matched against him, especially not when he has a massive advantage in close quarters).
But if you reject the holistic intent and want to work with feats, Luke Skywalker's tanking of UnuThul's telekinesis and ragdolling is far beyond anything Valkorion has done in combat:
- UnuThul's bending back turbolaser barrages is probably the best environmental unamped TK feat in Star Wars
- UnuThul has the combined Force potential of trillions of killiks, far beyond the sources of power that Valkorion has drawn on
And this still isn't likely the true limit of Luke's power given that he wasn't fighting to kill UnuThul and Jacen, who has directly witnessed UnuThul's power, is shocked and taken aback by Luke's on several occasions throughout LotF.
Given that Vaylin is substantially beneath Valkorion, I don't see why Luke couldn't solo this, but I actually don't see why we should think she's above Caedus. Given that Caedus's holistic placement, the publisher's blurb, and his performance against Luke vs. Vader's destruction against an enraged RotJ Luke likely put him above Vader despite his inconsistencies, Vaylin doesn't win any feats war because she can't outmatch what's seen in TFU or TFU II. But I know that Vader/Starkiller scaling is relevant to my debate with Ant, so I'll hold off on that and just say that Luke solos.
__________________ Join the new Star Wars vs. forum: Suspect Insight Forums (not url'd for spam prevention)
Last edited by The Ellimist on Mar 12th, 2018 at 11:38 PM
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Essentially, Vaylin outclasses Caedus who is more on Vader's tier whereas Vaylin is up there with Revan. Valkorion has the best in-combat feats in the mythos and sports a level of power through simultaneous feats that none in the mythos has come close to. He also has demonstrated with ease, feats that even Sheev has immensely struggled with. Luke vs. Valkorion should be much more entertaining than Sheev vs. Valkorion, simply because Valkorion outclasses any Sith.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Characters grow and change over time. However, growth is not necessarily constant and/or exponential over the years. Luke Skywalker had the potential to surpass Palpatine (Canon) but the latter was not into fair means of power progression (Legends).
Your hype of UnuThul is misplaced. UnuThul was unremarkable in the ways of the Force prior to his transformation; he drew strength from colonies of Killiks to offset his weakness in strength. Luke still stomped him when he got serious.
You keep harping about UnuThul deflecting Turbolaser fire (evidence?) But you forget that Lucien Drey was able to endure a massive barrage of Turbolaser fire when armed with Kressh's gauntlet. Keep in mind that Drey was able to endure a Force lightining blast [augmented through same gauntlet] when it was directed towards him earlier - a showing which implies that said gauntlet isn't a game-changer in itself. And Drey is mid-tier in strength per TOR standards.
Another thing is that Turbolaser significantly vary in potency as a weapon. Therefore, not a sound benchmark to assess strength of a character due to ambiguity factor.
Last, you need to revisit your ill-advised methods of scaling. Darths Vader and Caedus do not scale from showings of Starkiller.
Vaylin has vastly superior demonstrations of power than Darth Caedus. And no - she is not significantly below Valkorion. She is legit but Valkorion went to great lengths to hinder her power progression.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Mar 13th, 2018 at 04:45 AM
I see no evidence that Palpatine managed to augment his abilities past what Skywalker could surpass - he certainly hadn't yet done so by RotJ given his fear of Luke, and by DE is still telling Luke that he can surpass him, blah blah, and while that may just be his rhetoric, by RotJ he had already planned out the growths in power that we see in DE (he was writing about everything from storms to clones in BoS), so he would've factored that into his predictions of Luke's threat level. We know Luke had the potential to beat him in a duel given that Leia unlocking some immeasurable amount of potential in him was enough for him to win in sabers.
Who cares? Luke fought his augmented version, so the fact that he was augmented is irrelevant to gauging Luke's scaling.
Uhh...yeah, and we're talking about Luke here, so this is a point in his favor.
Not the same thing - but I'm going to defer this until I stop being lazy and actually make my essay on UnuThul.
Wait, really? I thought Valkorion disposed of her pretty easily.
__________________ Join the new Star Wars vs. forum: Suspect Insight Forums (not url'd for spam prevention)
you do know that Kressh's gauntlet allowed a clone trooper to tank a temple falling on him right? Obviously, it amped the durability of its wearer by a very large margin. Not only that, but I don't recall Darth Hayze even once stating that the gauntlet amped his power, just that it made him impossible to touch unless he willed it.
__________________
Last edited by deathslash on Mar 13th, 2018 at 05:40 AM
So I think an Unchained Luke would defeat Valkorion, whole Caedus as a glutton for punishment would last long enough against Vaylin for Luke to get the job done.
Normally, though, I’m backing team 2.
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
they really should have expanded on how powerful that thing made its wearer. Either way, it allowed a non force sensitive clone to tank a temple falling on him, and allowed Lucien Draay to walk off an orbital bombardment. It wasn't a minor amp no matter how you slice it.
Mar 12th, 2018 11:18 PM
