We already know that he is above the 3 most powerful members of the Endless:
-Dream outright stated that Lucifer was far more powerful than he.
-Death agreed that she had no hold over [a depowered] Lucifer.
-Lucifer ultimately subverted The Presence's plan, so we know he is beyond Destiny as well.
...So if the above can't do shit against Lucifer, the 'lesser' members of the Endless family would be less than nothing.
As for Father Time and Mother Night(assuming they are also included)...
Lucifer can explicitly create(and manipulate) the concept of time -- we saw him do this when he was forging his own creation. This certainly implies absolute control over the concept that Father Time embodies... Which makes sense given that Lucifer is, you know, the literal embodiment of God's Will.
Regarding Mother Night: I think she is similar to, say, the GEB in the way she embodies "the darkness that came before the light" or whathaveyou... So It's harder to say how a battle between she and Lucifer would play-out.
The endless actually have outplayed Lucifer, individually, in multiple instances. Dream went to hell twice and punked lucifer in both separate cases. Death contained and held lucifer prisoner after the Basanos killed him. And lucifer made a bet with destiny to see if he can make at least 1 prediction in destiny’s book false, and he lost. Lucifer is full of desire, despair, and destruction, I don’t see him beating the endless. Maybe 1vs 1 sure, not all of them tho not a chance. Now if u add michael, Gabriel or Elaine that would even the odds.
It doesn't make any sense. How can any created being be above Death? By definition they had a beginning and they'll have an end. At worst it would be a stalemate between Death and Lucifer (and I'm being super generous to Lucifer).
PS, I'd also argue that Desire is not one of the "lesser" Endless.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
Lucifer wasn't depowered, or at the very least not considerably so. He had his wings, it's just that two feathers were removed from them. But the purpose of the removal of the two feathers wasn't to depower him, it was to destabilize his powers: which was why he ended up hurting himself trying to use them to channel his power.
He didn't accomplish it through brute force. In fact he explicitly tried and failed. So attributing it to his power seems disingenious.
It might actually have been the case that Dream ended up undoing Father Time and Mother Night at the end of Overture.
In terms of raw power Lucifer should be more powerful, but it's not as black-and-white as you're making it seem.
If limited to Carey, Lucifer's machinations appear to have succeeded. Although, it wasn't like Yahweh sulked in defeat at the end. Acknowledging the rest of Lucifer's canon subverts any notion that Lucifer escaped Yahweh. But that doesn't necessarily denigrate Lucifer's station.
oh the lucifer v3 ending was inlcuded in the trade paperbag. that was published 2 years ago, long story short it mentioned lucifer is the greak darkness/geb, and he's hell incarnate. destiny of the endless mentioned lucifer has the power to kill him which coincide with sandman overture that lucifer>the endless family
but with lucifer not existing, the entire creation was collapsing in on itself. so a bunch of gods including the hunt god decided to act in lucifer's absence and execute his role as ruler of hell. to let humans realize all creations face the great darkness/geb after death. but they fuked up.
with lucifer not existing, retroactively war on heaven had no leader, so now hell is completely different.
we saw lucifer chilling at his usual spot by the beach (callback from the spectre v2 scene) saying goodbye to mazikeen
mazikeen was sitting on the beach reminiscing lucy when the angels of heaven arrived.
the truth is lucifer is the ying to presence's yang. without the devil, the role of god is indistinct. this doesn't mean presence has no meaning. just of his creation. after all presence was the one created his son
we saw a ragnarok like cycle. without lucifer, michael started the heaven civil war again, all the angels killing each other with one surviving and fallen to hell. history repeats itself, like an endless cycle, lucifer revived again. and this was all lucifer's plan. he wanted to prove in a very short time he did escape presence's plan, and he anticipated his own return. (kinda of dick move to turn the existence upside down just to prove a point)
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Last edited by MrMind on Sep 15th, 2022 at 07:11 AM
Reality was operating differently in Lucifer's absence with his "proteges" taking on his role as best they could, but reality was moving forward. Just not in a way that the angels in Heaven could tolerate.
Wow.. Sounds like Lucifer should have ended with Carey.
Lucifer passes on the torch to suckers, rides into the white void, the end.
I hope they leave Destruction alone. Let him keep.making bad art.
I say that, yet still see it a missed opportunity that Lucifer never had a heart to heart with the aspect of a multiversal force who walked away from his station, as Lucifer was attempting to walk away from his.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
i haven't read the last chapters of v3, but if it follows carey's cosmology at all then creation does eventually begin to collapse if yahweh goes missing without a successor (like elaine). that's why michael had to use his power to restore creation at one point after yahweh went awol.
but like i said, i'm not sure if that still applies in the most recent series because i haven't read the final chapters yet.
Last edited by DeadpoolXXX on Sep 17th, 2022 at 07:03 PM
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