if venom kicked supes' ass than carnage would do it faster and grosser.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Superman beats the crap out of Carnage without the slightest hint of effort. He has the strength to take Carnage out with one punch. Also, he has the speed to administer the punch before Carnage even knows what killed him.
IT DOESN"T MATTER IF THE COMIC's A LOAD OF CRAP!---(in The Rock's voice)
Facts is facts man, iron fist knocked out hulk, that was a crock of crap, venom pounded on ghost rider, which i still have my doubts about, wolverine caught a charagter who transends light speed, ect, ect, ect,,,,,
even if you don't like the fact that an event took place in a comic somewhere, it still doesn't change the fact that it did happen.
anyways, in the marvel vs. dc crossover, it was implied that venom went toe to toe with quicksilver, and the flash, both fast characters, and from the looks of things, they weren't winning. venom has also gone toe to toe with juggs, and the hulk. So carnage has a pretty damn well shot at taking out superman.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
crossovers by nature shoudlnt be considered canon. dc and marvel both have different power levels and capabilities. to even suggest carnage could stand up to superman is ridiculous...
Actually, Carnage has NO shot at taking out Superman in a well written comic book. Of course, the writers can do what they want. They can write that Alfred takes out the Living Tribunal. But, that would not be well written and would make no sense. You can take specific occurrences were it appears that the writers were drinking and made characters do things that were superior or inferior to their usual capabilities. You would also be right to say that those occurrences did happen and they were official. After all, anything that the comic companies decide to put out is official. Its up to them, not us. However, in a debate on which character should win in a well written and logical comic, such as the vs. threads, I would not hold these absurd occurrences as solid evidence. I would think it is more wise to actually look at the other 90% percent of each character's appearances. In other words, use the abilities that the character's use consistently and more often than not. Just to put things in perspective, I have a comic where Batman punches out Carnage. However, we all should know that Carnage would eat Batman for breakfast in a fist fight. Logically, Superman dispatches with Carnage in less than two seconds. He would have more of a problem making toast.
ugghhh, the symbiote is a mystery still, to the rest of the marvel universe. The full powers that a symbiote possesses are still potentialy endless. Symbiotes alone are fully capible of dispatching extremely high strength/speed/hell even god-like people a couple examples of this would be the silver surfer, and the stranger, who are cosmic beings, using a symbiote, spider-man beat firelord (don't ask me how, I still read that comic with a WTF look on my face.) bad writing or not. (oh yeah and while we're on that subject. It is nice and fine that you have your own opinion on the capibilities of comic writers and if your inclined to dissagree, then that's fine too. The point is however, who simply can't say that something which DID INFACT take place has no substance just because you don't like the writter's/company's style or say in how a story should pan out. If you're going to simply discredit events that did take place based on your opinion of the writer, then you shouldn't read comic books cause bad writing happens to good comics ALL---THE---TIME.
We all know that logically superman shouldn't be beaten by anyone---ever, short of a god, or lucifer or something. However, since you feel so inclined to include batman in this thread, then I must retort, Batman beat Carnage while carnage was weakened and confused due to what joker did to him. Batman found a weakness and exploited it. But, in that same logical fasion one could argue effectively that batman has handed supes his ass on a couple of occasions using the same exploitation technique.
logically superman shouldn't be beaten by a regular human,,,,,ever, but it happened. The thing about comics though, is that they're not logical, no one is going to get bitten by a radioactive spider to become a super hero, anyone who is caught in a gamma bomb is going to die, plain and simple, I shouldn't even have to go on about most of the ridiculous dc characters. You call venom beating the crap out of superman an absurd occurance, and for all intents and purposes I'm inclined to agree. But the fact still remains he did it. If it wasn't for these "Absurd Occurances" our comic worlds would be extremely boring. Isn't the fact that a different sun makes superman gain all sorts of random (and well all of the best) powers one could think up....absurd? I would say so,,,,,,,,,,,,but it happened.
wheather you want to admit it or not carnage DOES have a shot at beating superman.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
1. Joker did not do anything to Carnage at that moment, he threaten his life. You mean to tell me that if Carnage faces danger, he weakens to the point where Batman can punch him out? I really don't think what happened there makes any sense. But, If I am wrong and that did make sense, then it would only help my argument. Considering that Superman is far more deadly with his fists.
2. Batman has never beaten Superman in a fair fight. Batman has tricked him and ambushed him with Kryptonite among other methods. Please, do not go the route of implying that Batman can beat Superman in a fair fight. That will quickly turn this topic more into a joke than it already is.
3. Carnage has a shot at beating Superman? Carnage has been beaten by people with the strength to lift about 10 tons. Superman's limit is not really known. He has the strength to knock Carnage out with one blow. He has the speed to move so fast that Carnage would only see flashes of red and blue. Explain to me, in a random battle where Superman is intent on taking Carnage out, what Carnage would do to save himself? Tell me how Carnage can beat Superman. Tell me how.
Venom literally got his ass handed to him by the Juggernaut in "Venom: The Madness".
No way Venom would defeat Superman.
Anyways, back on topic, Carnage would get creamed by Superman. Superman would be just too quick for Carnage to do anything. Also, Superman could freeze him solid or incinerate him with his laser vision and then dispatch him at his leisure.
Also, did you see what the Sentry did to Carnage in New Avengers? Now just imagine what Superman would do to him.
__________________
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Last edited by Darth Vegas on Jan 11th, 2005 at 09:16 PM
I don't have the bats/carnage crossover, with me up here at college, it's at home, but as far as I remember Carnage was having some mental problems (more than the usual) and his face was completely exposed.
(if I'm wrong, and i could be, somebody remind me of how that whole mess went down cause i don't remember it too well.)
And i never implied that bats could take out supes in a fair fight, you misunderstood, I'm just trying to get the point accross that so what if batman beat carnage (when other factors were at play), he's beaten supes too. Do you get what I'm trying to get at there?
I really doubt that Superman is going to KO carnage in one blow. Yeah venom got an asshanding (the first time around) from Juggs, but it didn't seem like juggs' blows were doing much more than tossing the v man around, I mean he was making wise-cracks while juggernaught put his face through the pavement. Carnage is stronger than venom and should be able to take more punishment from supes, than "one blow" especially since carnage almost thrives on pain. He burned himself with a bunsen burner while he was combined with another symbiote just to get info, and he dind't care about the hurt he felt.
You want a way for carnage to beat supes? here's a few
-Carnage goes invsible sneaks up on supes and either sends tendrils into superman's brain to scramble it, or covers his head with symiote to give superman hilucinations, nightmares, making him crazy.
-a big diff between these two, is that superman's not a killer, and carnage goes on killing sprees. while there isn't one tangible thing carnage cares about carnage could score like 30 hostages rapping tendrils around their necks etc....and he would have superman at his mercy.
-or he can send a symbiotic scream throughout the universe causing hundreds upon thousands of the symbiote species to race their way across space and overwhelm superman with sheer numbers.
now in the same token I understand that superman is THE MAN and that due to his speed being faster than a sonic jet all he would have to do is fly by carnage, and it would probably obliterate him. But common he doesn't fight like that, and like I said the crossover may have been crap writing, but it occured. I think i've made my point here, carnage is no pushover and he does have the tools to beat superman. superman can beat carnage, but for a creature that has taken out ss and the stranger, I don't think supes is in for a walk in the park plain and simple.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
But yes, creating writing, as you would say and exhibited, may find a way for Carnage to beat the Man of Steel.
The chances are also very slim however, especially when DC must consider using their poster child losing in a fight.....and to someone like Carnage? Won't happen.
KMC Community Forums
Jan 11th, 2005 03:35 PM
"damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
