Yikes, big thread has been done, wasn't it the biggest thread in this section? This is a bad idea... but I say Dooku wins. Better saber skills, and Vader's 80% of Sidious. Yoda was like 99% of Sidious and Dooku was at least 90% of Yoda so 89% of Sidious or more, which is why I put him above Vader.
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't
terrible logic and where did you hear 99%? Thats crap...and yes, this thread is a BAAAAD idea, lol. You'll have me, Ox, and Kadesh in this b!tch arguing like crazy...go read the long thread...
Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Picking up some power converters.
Vader.
He has more raw power in the force, and about as much experience (what he lacks in years he makes up for in intensity. Anything that The Empire needed done that required a powerful individual that they wouldn't trust to the likes of a bounty hunter, Vader was there).
He also, has a few specific advantages:
Form V: Best against Makasahi.
Physical strength: Incredible strength and a form that plays off that,
Armor: That deflects weak blows of Makashi.
Knowledge of Dooku.
I need to go, I can elaborate or quote one of my unfortunately numerous old posts like this later.
I got the 99% from my head. From watching ROTS my head knows that Yoda lsot but it was very, very close, and Sidious may have even gotten a bit lucky. It was so close, in fact, that many people here consider the two of them to be even, but since Sdiious won in the film I give Yoda a 99% of Sidious rating.
And since when has Makashi used weak blows? When Dooku cut off Anakin's arm in AOTC?
Well Dooku wins. If you want to know why read that huge thread that was being argued not long ago. Like Subjekt said, we will all start b*tching at each other and the result wont be pretty...
Man Vader takes this. Everyone considers Vader this very slow person but watch ESB again and you'll see Vader and Luke moved fast. Also Vader wasn't trying to kill Luke just disarm him so he could turn him to the darkside. Vader has far more raw force powers and is physically stronger then Dooku. Not to mention Vader has 20 years of more experience and a (new) Jedi Knight Anakin could take down Dooku.
Yoda was 100% of RotS Sidious. He wasn't weaker, he wasn't stronger. He lost due to Sidious's superior tactics and positioning; but that isn't reflective of his power - or lack thereof.
Now, Vader was 80% of RotJ Sidious. RotJ Sidious has had twenty years of deep study and experimenting in the dark side. Logically, he improved by quite a bit over the years. He also helped train his dark side adepts.
On the other hand, Yoda spent twenty years in exile without much training or studying. I'd say that RotJ Sidious was firmly more powerful than OT Yoda.
That said: Vader is stronger than Dooku, has had more duels (from the Jedi), and is a more powerful practitioner of the dark side. Dooku'd give him hell, but the only forseeable way that Dooku would win, in my opinion, is through Sith lightning (which Vader can block).
Fast? Perhaps, depending on how you look at it. But compare it to the PT (Hint: Dooku's era), it is slower than a 1 legged ox. Dooku is far faster than Vader. He was able to easily keep up with the likes of Yoda (arguably the fastest duellist either had ever seen). In terms of spped, Dooku takes this comfortably. Heck, I could see our fair Count hitting Vader several times before Vader can mount an effective defence - if going by the movies which I assume we are.
Are you referring to ESB or ROTJ? In ESB Vader was going relatively easy, yet he still couldnt straight up disarm young Skywalker - depite the fact Luke had only weeks if not days of training with a blade. I seem to recall Luke even getting a hit in on Vader shoulder. If an unexperienced, untrained farmboy can do that, I hate to think what an 80 year old jedi master come sith lord, who has had extensive training with both sides of the force, practices the ultimate refinement in lightsaber to lightsaber combat and was desribed as a lightsaber prodigy could do.
What do you mean Vader has had 20 years more experience? In the darkside yes, but Dooku has had decades more experience overall. He was one of the very best duellists in an era where the jedi were at their prime - no mean feat if I do say so myself.
Also you can hardly compare ROTS Anakin and OT Vader. Because Anakin bet Dooku it in no way means Vader could. They can be seen as two completely different people, who fight differently and have diffferent strengths and weaknesses during combat. By your logic Dooku should beat Vader because he pwned AOTC Anakin. Doesnt work like that im afraid.
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
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Speed not always be the factor here ok? Tsui choi is just as fast as yoda and yet vader could parry his attacks and take on 4 jedi at dueling at once
Um you do know luke used vaders form of djem so against his father right? that proves how powerful vaders djem so is, that even if some one were to mirror that move on its master, its master would get smacked down.
Experience can get refuted when i say yoda had 900 years od experience and lost to sidious who had only like what 60 at that time?
Yes you can, OT vader has grown far stronger than ROTS anakin, and do i need to point out that palpatine stated that vaders limitations are psycological and not physical? Had vader shaken his doubts, palatine noted that "the incredible power" will awaken in him again and by the OT im pretty sure he has got rid of some of his doubts which makes him even stronger than Purge vader
1 word, the lightsaber.
and i wonder if what GL said was true, an interview asked him "why do so many kids like vader and palpatine?" Then lucas replied "Because they are the most powerful" Is that G-canon or something?
Last edited by BoratBorat on Dec 10th, 2006 at 08:39 AM
supposidly sidious has a very high midiclorian count almost as high as anakin which says why he equals yoda at 840 his minor, i think it all comes down to midiclorian count i dont think you can be stronger then the midiclorian count you have thats why if you lose a limb you will be weaker, but then again you can heal yourself but vader didnt heal himself or couldnt is unknown, but yeah if vader gets hit just once with the lightning its all over isnt it. but then again yeah he can block it.
Wow. care to back that up? lol Seeing as Anakin was said to have 200% of the potential (midiclorians) that Sidious has. This was stated by Lucas himself. Sidious had nowhere near the midiclorian count as Anakin. To quote Qui-Gon "No Jedi has" or in this case, just no one. (Besides possibly Luke, but this is disputed)
BS claims, they seem to be running rampant around here as of late. Kinda starting to tick me off a bit, people need to stop just making shit up.
To answer the thread though, this is hard. I'm no 100% sure that Dooku could take Vader completely head to head in a lightsaber duel. Anakin's physical strength was Dooku's downfall in they're ROTS duel, and Suit Vader is far more physically strong then human Anakin is. So I'm not sure if Dooku actually could beat Vader, and even if he could it would be no cake walk for Dooku by any means. OT Vader just beats people into the ground, thats his style, Dooku couldn't handle that kind of blunt force. That being said Dooku's saber skills are so good that he might be able to just get around Vaders hammering, but then he didn't get by a physically weaker Anakin's hammering in ROTS...so...again, I'm not so sure.
Force Wise Vader is prolly overall about Dooku's force equal, but I'd give a slight advantage to Vader given his extreme raw power. However, Dooku's lightning is a huge factor and if Vader couldn't block it with his saber for whatever reason, then he's screwed.
You guys need to stop looking at how this would happen on paper, but look at how they fought in the movies, and I can honestly say that Dooku pwns him in about 10 seconds. People, Vader was terrible in ESB. Slow as ****, he was unskilled, Luke who had been a jedi for what, 5 minutes, and he was able to slice his hand off. Vader gets destroyed, bad.
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
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Wow you really suck at debating dont you. Need i not mention vader is fast enough to pwn 4 jdi masters at once? and that he took on 8 jedi masters at once and parried their attacks until he got backstabbed, o yea lets not forget he could destroy tanks on the battlefield the size on an AT-AT which he demonstrated in Eaw and FOC. And being slow doesnt mean you would get pwned, tsui choi is much faster than all the jedis on kessel and yet even he couldnt break vaders defence.
And did you know that luke used vaders form of djem so? which is made op of ataru and djem so which he both learnt from yoda and obi1? That proves how dangerous and powerful vaders djem so is, that even if it were to be used on its on practitionar which would result in a tremendous knock down.
Did you even read the old dooku vs vader match where vader beat dooku?
By the way Gideon did point out that sidious chose mechanical vader over count dooku
Taken from Dark Lord: the Rise of Darth Vader, page 123 Vader's eyes searched Sidious's face. "Did you promise as much to Count Dooku?"
Sidious bared his teeth, but only briefly. "Darth Tyranus knew what he risked, Lord Vader. If he had been stronger in the dark side, you would be dead, and he would be at my right hand."
Orignally from Gideon That seems to bring perspective on the fight. According to Sidious, not only did Dooku know what he risked in dueling Anakin, but Sidious also attributes his defeat as a lack of strength in the dark side in comparison to Vader - and if Dooku had truly been more powerful and stronger in the dark side - he would be in Vader's place as Sith pupil and second most powerful man in the galaxy.
Last edited by BoratBorat on Dec 10th, 2006 at 12:53 PM
Dec 10th, 2006 04:44 AM
