I have a fair bit of experience in the Warhammer world, having read Eisenhorn, the Ultramarine Omnibus and a few other Marine books years ago. I have also played "Space Marine" the game and the Dawn of War series but I imagine the canon for the games is dubious?
This thread could be interesting though, Sanguinius is a Primarch no?
This fight will likely rely purely on him using his pure strength behind the force of something like a power blade. The question is, can he keep up with teleportation, could he strike mist form and most importantly, any soul resistances by feats? Add mind control resistances to that? I am going to assume his physical "tank" is high enough to take tons and tons of force.
A greater Demon would just get possessed or its soul devoured by any number entities in LoK.
Failing that the Elder God being most invisible, instangible to its foes and the size of a large region would be able to crush as many armies of chaos as it pleases, the Chaos Gods themselves would have to get involved, their physical monsters would be nothing but chaff.
The blessing of khorne fights against powers conceived in ways different to the way LoK forces make their magic. LoK forces don't get their powers from the warp do they, you would have to give actual feats to claim they have resistance to the same things LoK forces could do.
As for them having possession and soul powers? Good for them, maybe they could fight evenly with some LoK factions.
Take the Bloodthirster of Khorne, its Greater Demon. What has it ever done featwise of note? Unless ime mistaken its basically a muscular, 20 foot tlal demon wielding an axe and wearing armour that does not cover its whole body. Are they not the same demons in WH40k that get killed by heroes in Warhammer fantasy as well?
TBH, by experience of Bloodthirsters is in the DoW games, where their literally just large demons. I have only one good feat for a "special" bloodthirster, the Heart of Blood from the Space marines omnibus and that could pose a threat to armies, but even then, the armies would be chaff to the top tiers of LoK as well so its no biggie. Infact, the Heart of blood has the same power Kain does, "Bloodshower", pretty much the same thing and it was described in "Dead sky, black sun" as like its most powerful move...
I wouldn't be surprised if there are Demons in LoK that are at least a big physically as a Bloodthirster, like the Great fire demons in Defiance;
It's called equivalence. The unwritten, unspoken rule where we assume several things will interact with eachother for the sake of debates that most debating forums use unless otherwise specified. It's there to stop people from weaseling their way around canonical immunities by saying shit like "oh but x magic resistance doesn't work because y uses a different magic" or "x can't shut off y's magic because y's magic is different than x's" headache inducing shit
One reason why the force works on people outside the Star Wars universe
Except they possess mind**** and soul**** on a planetary scale at least and they can do this (and reality warping) just by existing on a planet, what does LoK have?
Bloodthirsters, other than face Primarchs who can bust up mountains, create large craters with their attacks, play soccer with tanks, blitz Space Marines who can dodge and deflect bullets with their swords, survive macro cannon shells, survive being thrown across the warp for several days and cause a massive canyon with their impacts, bitchslap Carnifexes who can destroy skyscrapers with their physical attacks among other such fun shit
Then you have some Greater Daemon leeching energy off a star, that Great Unclean One in DoW2 who was cracking continents and tearing the planet apart with it's presence, not to mention moved the planet out of it's orbit, prolly moar I'm forgetting
They're considerably weaker than ****ers like Heart of Blood
Size means not. Power does. What feats do LoK demons have?
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Last edited by StealthRanger on Apr 10th, 2014 at 11:08 AM
Unwritten and unspoken because its not a true rule, its fallacious to assume that just because one universe labels something as a magical immunity then every fiction has to adhere to it regardless of how it actually works. The way warp powers work in WH40k is VERY different to many other universes, and considering "magic" can be used to label most supernatural phenomenon is a huge blanket to claim fallaciously that the Bloodthirster or w/e the marked demon is apparently resistant/immune to every type of supernatural power in fiction. It needs real feats, being hit by a soul devouring attack and shrugging it off would be nice, or resisting someone like Kain just draining it dry of blood would be cool. Not that TK is generally considered sorcery in LoK.
proof for this? Are you saying "all" greater Demons can soul and mind rape on a planetary scale or are you talking about specific ones?
As for mind rape on a planetary scale, are you talking about direct mind control, salved to the users will or corruption? Because their different, Ulkair in DoW 2 "corrupted" Guardsmen but its not like he was mind controlling everyone, Space marines and all the other races..only the weak willed seem to be affected.
An average Bloodthirster or a specific one? Can you prove this please because I find this unbelievable, ive read of Bloodthirsters fighting toe to toe physically, maybe smashing craters in the ground I can believe, that's not that impressive but destroy skyscrapers, when? And a Carnifex is not that big of a deal, in "Warriors of Ultramar" a guardsmen blew a Carnifexes head off with a rocket launcher...a hand carried weapon.
That only sounds impressive but means little in a one on one fight.
But, if I recall was defeated by the players party? A bunch of marines...besides, everything you just mentioned about it was not something it did instantly, it created a planetary warp storm sure but it was still defeated by regular means. Greater Deamons are not as tough as you think they are since they can be beaten by marines, just a few....
Is "Space marine" canon? Because if it is, one marine punched a Deamon prince continually in the face while it was falling.
They only have size, and fire breath. But you keep bringing up physical capabilities, considering their not much smaller if not equel in size to a bloodthirster it suggests that their impacts are going to be just as strong.
The force of an impact is subject to weight and speed. Unless you can prove a Bloodthirster is ridiculously fast, and since to my knowledge from the books, they are generally not then the fact the Greater Demon of LoK is about the same size they could fight toe to toe, besides the advantage of the Bloodthirsters axe of course.
Then again, LoK demons can all get anywhere on a world almost instantly by teleporting and phasing in and out of the spectral world. They also all eat souls, their numerous.
Last edited by Total Broadband on Apr 10th, 2014 at 12:08 PM
Wouldn't be surprised if the other thread for Sol Badguy is a bait thread as well. Does Sanguinius use power weapons? What weapons does he use specifically?
Looking it up, he apparently once used a spear and a sword....netiher one can I find much info on their enchantments.
More importantly, what does he wield here?
Last edited by Total Broadband on Apr 10th, 2014 at 04:41 PM
He's a psyker, probably thirdish in psychic power of the Primarchs.
He has the telekinetic power to mentally land a 10 kilometer long starship safely upon a planet when it was going to crash land and kill everyone inside due to systems failure and shit.
He destroys Kain's soul with a single attack a microsecond into the fight, since even Space Marines have demonstrated microsecond reaction-time.
Any proof on that? From what I have read he used a "red sword" in the Horus heresy and used a spear before that.
I find this unlikely, any proof? A microsecond being a millionth of a second would suggest the marines should be able to dodge or avoid most incoming fire, I have read multiple novels on them and they never have this capability, infact they rely a lot on their "tanky" armour...are you sure your not referring to a massive outlier?
Admittadly this is incredibly impressive the way you say it, but how much does he actually carry of the ship? Does he simply "guide" it, or does the source directly say he held the entire weight of the starship. What was the weight of the starship?
How would he destroy Kains soul? Kains soul is nigh immune to soul attacks, hes been hit by the Soulreaver before, so unless Sanguinus' soul attack has pierced defences of someone who can soul resist its not an automatic win.
Also reaction time is not the equel of Sanguinus doing a soul attack, he would "react" or "think" then what suggests he would automatically know about Kains only way of being defeated (his soul) AND then use this attack? because it seems to me hes a melee fighter, he fought Horus and the Greater Bloodthirster in the Horsus heresy hand to hand...
So even if he is a good psyker, is he a typical user of the art?
What is Sanguinius' durability like, and more importantly his soul resistances? Mind control, blood control etc, Kain has methods of killing Sanguinius.
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Apr 10th, 2014 05:23 AM
