Though I may have not read the Watchmen yet though I know for a fact he is a very powerful being with seemingly limitless power. Now I wondered in my own head hat will happen if both the Phoenix and Doctor Manhattan would fight each other who will win in the fight. There is no prep time for either character and they both have been taken away from there own universes to a pocket dimension. Now I leave it up to your opinions to see who will win this fight and please give a valid read to why the character itself would in in the fight. Though if those of you who do not know the powers of of either character here is there powers along with a link to what either character is capable of here:
Powers and abilities
The Phoenix is virtualy omnipotent having the power to tap into the energy provided by life-force reserved for future generations, thus denying them existence. It can wield this energy to project beams of immense concussive force. It can transmigrate throughout time and space by folding its energy back into itself, causing it to collapse akin to a black hole. It then reforms itself upon reaching its destination. It can directly absorb energy such as Cyclops' optic blasts or the entire energy of a sun. It is also capable of absorbing the energy and life-force from a foe. The Phoenix Force can control life and death itself and is the Guardian of Creation. As it is the nexus of all psionic energy, it has mental abilities of cosmic scope, including telepathy and telekinesis, and cosmic abilities on a omniversal scale. Often seeks out hosts who have strong enough psionic abilities so they will be able to withstand the force's power, such as that of Emma Frost who could not bear the burden of Phoenix's hunger for human emotion when it bonded with her. [4] When the Phoenix Force enters a host, a fragment of its powers is left behind when it leaves. Even a small fragment can be stronger than an inexperienced host using the Phoenix's powers, as seen by Rachel Summers, who had full access to the Force, but her opponent threw moons at her with only a fragment (the Phoenix Force decided to not interfere with mortal beings and only allowed Rachel to tap into the force's powers at that time). When bonded with a host, the Phoenix Force amplifies their abilities to incalculable levels. It can manipulate matter on a sub-atomic level (e.g., turning wood to gold, stone to crystal, etc). It can teleport others across vast distances across space and can also open wormholes to access corners of the Universe. If the Phoenix Force is harmed or killed, it will form an "egg" of cosmic power, incubate in the White Hot Room, and hatch out completely healed. Also being one of the oldest cosmic beings the Phoenix possesses a degree of omniscience. Link
Powers and abilities
Jon is the only character in the Watchmen series to explicitly possess superhuman abilities (although the details of the plot presuppose the existence of genuine human psychics). Throughout Watchmen, he is shown to be immensely powerful and invulnerable to all harm; a clear limit to his powers is never explicitly shown. Jon has complete awareness of and control over atomic and subatomic particles. He can alter his body's size, coloration, density, and strength. He does not appear to age, need food (although he is shown to eat regardless of this), water, or air, and is for all intents and purposes immortal at thirty years old. In addition, he is even able to reconstruct his body if completely disintegrated. He can teleport himself and others over great (even interplanetary) distances, but the exact limit to the number of people other than himself he can teleport at one time or the distance he can teleport them is unknown. It is quite possible there may be none since on one occasion he teleports a whole crowd of rioters away from the streets and each into their own individual homes. However, he seems unable or unwilling to prevent the side effects others experience during teleportation; Laurie, for instance, always throws up on arrival and two demonstrators had heart attacks--something Jon seems to dismiss. Due to his non-linear perception of time, he can also see the future (and the past), although he is apparently unable to change it, regardless of the outcome. His only weakness appears to be tachyons; a large burst of them can 'jam' or slow his ability to see the future to a large extent, as well as temporarily confusing his perception of the "present time". In addition to these powers, Jon is able to phase any part of his body through solid objects without damaging them, produce multiple copies of himself which function independently of each other, project destructive energy, create force fields, transmute and create matter, move objects without physically touching them (telekinesis), reverse entropy, and, he suggests, create life. At one point in the Watchmen story-line it is stated that, in the event of a nuclear war, he would be capable of destroying upwards of 60% of all Soviet nuclear missiles while at the same time 'destroying' large areas of Russia. As a result of these capabilities, Jon becomes central to the United States' Cold War strategy of deterrence. Link
Last edited by shadow177a17 on Apr 19th, 2008 at 08:45 PM
As impressive as DM's powerset sounds on paper, when it came to on panel application of his power, he never achieved anything large scale enough to place him beyond the likes of a Watcher.
Wait I just want to ask didn't it mention on panel that Doctor Manhattan said he was going to create life or something? Plus I have hear that he has no real limitation to his abilities which could make it a draw though that is just my opinion since they could destroy each other. Also like I mention before to anybody who posts on the forum please give a reason to why either DM or Phoenix will win the fight instead of just lazily type the name of the person who you think will win the fight here.
For all the talk of his abilities, we can only go by what was actually demonstrated.
You talk of creating life, even Sersi the Eternal can create life forms from matter same as Dr Manhattan. Thats no reason to try and equate him to the Phoenix.
Name me one feat of power that places him clear above the likes of a Watcher, or Galactus.
Enjoyment of the comic is not about power levels, but when it comes to taking that character and pitting him against another fictional being in a hypothetical battle based on comic book feat, it very much is.
There was alot of talk about Dr Manhattans potential, but what we saw on panel, wasn't anything that could make Uatu break out in a sweat.
DM is powerful, but let's be honest he was a very big fish in a small pond when it came to the people around him. The only other person who would be considered a threat in Marvel or DC would be Ozmandis, sorry about spelling.
Personally I would put Doc Manhattan under Silver Surfer, Most Green Lanterns, and Thor, Superman for power.
The guy when it came to feats was utterly lacking, and the ones he did have put him so far below planet busting.
Never read watchman.. so i won't vote... but phoenix.. is soooooooooooooooooo frigging powerful, my knee jerk reaction in almost any fight against that beast is to say phoenix...
unless of course you mean phoenix as jean or rachel grey without actual access to the true potential of the cosmic hierarcy.
__________________ Quotes from Hia8:
"I claimed that the science is sometimes faulty."
"You don't understand. This is fiction. That means none of this stuff really happened."
"There is no writer to purposely ignore a character's natural ability just because it suits the story."
"in some cases because the writer knows that Character A will dominate Character B easily and refuses to allow this to happen for the sake of the story."
Gender: Male Location: Drinking gasoline. Pissing napalm.
I've read The Watchmen. I'd still say either Jean, or Rachel would be able able to best Dr. Manhattan.
Incidentally, during Countdown they made several references to Watchmen that I thought was cool. "Who monitors the Monitors?" Instead of "Who watches the Watchmen?"
Gender: Male Location: Drinking gasoline. Pissing napalm.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
I know. I was a Classics minor. But you made an awesome reference. Plato uses it first in the Republic, when he has Socrates ask, "Who will guard the Guardians?"
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Apr 19th, 2008 08:37 PM
