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Evolution/Intelligent Design: In My Own Words
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ushomefree
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Evolution/Intelligent Design: In My Own Words

As we all know, Evolution i

Old Post Mar 11th, 2009 11:45 PM
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King Kandy
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And what enlightening words they are.


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Old Post Mar 11th, 2009 11:57 PM
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ushomefree
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This thread was posted in error! eek!

Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 12:03 AM
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ushomefree
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Would you like to debate on the topic of Evolution/Intelligent Design?

Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 12:06 AM
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tsilamini
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ushomefree: what, to you, would constitute sufficient evidence for the evolution side to win?


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yes, a million times yes

Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 12:13 AM
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AngryManatee
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He didn't even say candlejack o_O


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Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 12:43 AM
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ushomefree
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quote:
Originally posted by inimalist

ushomefree: what, to you, would constitute sufficient evidence for the evolution side to win?


I'd like to see "brand new" information introduced into an organisms' genome, and I'm not referring to mutated information; such leads to complication and death. For Natural Selection to be remotely possible, brand new information must be introduced into the genome (by whatever means) for organisms to have a change at life, not to mention the future development. IT MUST CARRY TO THE NEXT GENERATION!

Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 01:16 AM
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tsilamini
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ushomefree
I'd like to see "brand new" information introduced into an organisms' genome, and I'm not referring to mutated information; such leads to complication and death. For Natural Selection to be remotely possible, brand new information must be introduced into the genome (by whatever means) for organisms to have a change at life, not to mention the future development. IT MUST CARRY TO THE NEXT GENERATION!


what do you mean by "new information". Be as specific as you can please.


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Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 01:28 AM
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ushomefree
I'd like to see "brand new" information introduced into an organisms' genome, and I'm not referring to mutated information; such leads to complication and death. For Natural Selection to be remotely possible, brand new information must be introduced into the genome (by whatever means) for organisms to have a change at life, not to mention the future development. IT MUST CARRY TO THE NEXT GENERATION!


Do you know what viruses do? They exchange DNA with their host (us). I think that would count as brand new information. If the sperm or egg where to be infected before fertilization, then the child would have a mutation. Also, sense this mutation is connected with a population of people, all getting the virus, then there is a good chance that more then one children will be born with this mutation. Sometimes this will lead to disaster, but sometimes it leads to a better adapted human.


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Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 01:36 AM
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King Kandy
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ushomefree
I'd like to see "brand new" information introduced into an organisms' genome, and I'm not referring to mutated information; such leads to complication and death. For Natural Selection to be remotely possible, brand new information must be introduced into the genome (by whatever means) for organisms to have a change at life, not to mention the future development. IT MUST CARRY TO THE NEXT GENERATION!

How about that bacteria that scientists coded info onto it's DNA?


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Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 03:39 AM
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leonheartmm
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ushomfree, the very fact that you get a flue every season without any1 being able to make a vaccine for the common cold is evidence enough that BRAND NEW INFORMATION evolves in life all the time. infact, pathogen trends concerning immunity can be an excellent marker of general evoluion of species. and creationists need to be more specific about what they mean by INFORMATION, too often has the vagueness of this term been used as a fallacious linguistic weapon against evolutionists.

Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 03:52 AM
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Digi
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we have threads for this, a lot of them already started by ushome. This should be closed because it is needless spam. Reported.


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Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 05:12 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by inimalist
what do you mean by "new information". Be as specific as you can please.


Is your signature-quote thing from an xkcd web comic?


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Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 05:27 PM
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tsilamini
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Digi
Is your signature-quote thing from an xkcd web comic?


ya, I was feeling a bit lonely when I came across it, sort of spoke to me in the moment.

funny stuff, that xkcd


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Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 07:53 PM
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ushomefree
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quote:
Originally posted by leonheartmm

ushomfree, the very fact that you get a flue every season without any1 being able to make a vaccine for the common cold is evidence enough that BRAND NEW INFORMATION evolves in life all the time. infact, pathogen trends concerning immunity can be an excellent marker of general evoluion of species.


Immunity has nothing to do with this issue. Viruses remain viruses.

Every organism on the face of the planet evolves in the traditional sense, but nothing morphs into something entirely new (containing brand new genetic information and raw material). To build a bridge over the problem, Darwinists commonly speak of genetic mutation. Yes, genetic mutation does occur in nature, but not in the fashion that Darwinists would have you believe.

Genetic mutations are simply errors within the "pre-existing" DNA code. Such does not introduce "brand new" information; hence no new raw material.

For example, genetic mutations produce infants born attached at the head, frogs born with 3 (frog) legs and fruit-flies born with (fruit-fly) legs growing out of their heads.

If genetic mutation were true in the sense that Darwinists propose, we would see, for example, fruit-flies being born with brand new raw material -- material unknown/new to the anatomy of a fruit-fly.

Let me explain by analogy:

You can not build a bicycle into a motorcycle. You can re-arrange, delete, and/or duplicate the building instruction of the bicycle (until a purple unicorn or a peanut-butter and jelly sandwich spontaneously generates in your living room); such will not bring abound oil and gas pumps, pistons, ignition systems and disk brakes. Never will you produce a motorcycle, only a genetically mutated bicycle.

Such does not occur at Harley Davidson manufacturing plants, and it does not occur in nature.


quote:
Originally posted by leonheartmm

and creationists need to be more specific about what they mean by INFORMATION, too often has the vagueness of this term been used as a fallacious linguistic weapon against evolutionists.


This is simply not true. Creationists, when talking about information, are referring to DNA, not to mention it's function. It is Darwinists who are vague, branding grand ideas and wishful thinking as Science. Everybody wants their government grants and lobby funds. It is all about money!

Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 08:52 PM
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tsilamini
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by inimalist
ushomefree: what, to you, would constitute sufficient evidence for the evolution side to win?


quote: (post)
Originally posted by ushomefree
I'd like to see "brand new" information introduced into an organisms' genome


quote: (post)
Originally posted by inimalist
what do you mean by "new information". Be as specific as you can please.


also, what would qualify the information as being introduced?


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yes, a million times yes

Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 09:00 PM
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tsilamini
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ushomefree
If genetic mutation were true in the sense that Darwinists propose, we would see, for example, fruit-flies being born with brand new raw material -- material unknown/new to the anatomy of a fruit-fly.


do you really think this is what the modern theory of evolution proposes?

EDIT: not to tip my hand on this line of questioning, but the idea that never before seen information would just "appear" in a genome is much more in line with "creationism" or "intelligent design" than what genetics would argue. A modern hypothesis about genetics would involve locating the mutations that gave rise to new information over a series of generations... and I'm taking the bait sad


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Last edited by tsilamini on Mar 12th, 2009 at 09:08 PM

Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 09:02 PM
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ushomefree
...Every organism on the face of the planet evolves in the traditional sense, but nothing morphs into something entirely new (containing brand new genetic information and raw material)...


All species on the face of the Earth are currently morphing from what they were in the past to what they will be in the future. Your idea that species are static at any time is wrong. All life is evolving at all times. The rate of this change is so slow that it takes millions of years to see species change. What you call "evolves in the traditional sense" is evolution. The idea of species is a human invention to help us understand nature. The image of a tree to represent evolution is not the best one to use, IMHO. A better idea would be a river that is poring into a delta. However, this image of a delta is moving way too slow for us to see.


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Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 09:13 PM
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ushomefree
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Very intelligent, Shaky!

Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 09:22 PM
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ushomefree
Very intelligent, Shaky!


Have you ever stood on a dune? When I was a kid, I lived by so dunes. They always seemed to be the same to me, but when I took geology classes in school, I learned that dunes change over time. They never suddenly change, but they change one grain of sand at a time.


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Old Post Mar 12th, 2009 09:28 PM
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