Howgarts wizards versus Sidious and the Jedi Order...
OK, check this out:
All of the upper level Hogwarts wizards plan to invade the Jedi Temple, overtake it by any means necessary. They can either kill or incapacitate the Jedi, it's up to the wizard. The Jedi are unaware of the attack until it happens.
The wizards: Voldemort, his Death Eaters, Dumbledore and the entire Hogwarts staff, The Order of the Phoenix, Harry, and any other extremely gifted Hogwarts students.
The Jedi defending the temple include every Jedi Knight/Master from ROTS. No Padawans or younglings. We can even include ones not shown but mentioned, like Quinlan Vos.
Before the battle begins, Sidious confronts Anakin in a locked room and tells him the bullshit about being able to save Padme. As Anakin mulls this over, the battle begins. Yoda enters the room and engages Sidious in lightsaber combat. Does Anakin turn and help Sidious against Yoda, or does he stay Jedi and rush to help his Jedi comrades?
Let's do two scenarios:
1. Anakin turns Sith and helps Sidious against Yoda, in this scenario, Mace Windu comes in to help Yoda.
2. Anakin stays Jedi, rushes to help the Jedi, leaving Yoda and Sidious to fight one on one.
And who wins the battle? Bear in mind that the Clone troopers are spread out across the galaxy, and cannot help here.
The Hogwarts wizards can use any spell they know, and have the potions/gadgets shown in the HP movies.
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All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
How so? The Jedi outnumber the Wizards, dude. And Sidious is in the mix. There are actually three potential winners here. the Jedi, the Wizards, or the Sith.
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All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
OK, same scenario, the wizards invade, Yoda, Mace and Anakin are in the mix. Sidious? He's watching from afar, waiting to decide who to join. Better?
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All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
Apparition is off the table. Precognition will have the jedi already knowing where they are before they even appear. Likewise the jedi will be easily avoiding the projectile spells of the wizards becuase of this. The problem with the jedi is that they don't allow offensive use of the Force, or a least aren't very well versed in its use. So most of them would need to get close to be effective. While difficult, this isn't impossible given how fast jedi can be. For reference, see TPM with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon as well as several canon sources that state that the jedi in the movies where in fact moving much faster than depicted but where slowed down for the audience and cost reasons.
Luckily, scenario 1 has Windu and Anakin in, who are two jedi who actually do use the force offensively. Windu can cave in the chests of just about any opponent he meets with Force Crush, which he has in the past used on Grievous' durasteel body (that's why he coughs a lot). But I can see why that might not be able to be used. Bottom line though? Anakin cuts a bloody swath with Force Scream, an omni-directional sonic based attack that he's displayed both on screen and in canon sources. And no RJ, the wizards cannot block at the speed of sound. The rest fall to the combined might of the rest of the order.
Scenario 2 is easier becuase of Sidious (particularly EU Sids whose FLightning can disintegrate flesh and once mind-raped a good portion of Coruscant (yes, the entire planet) fairly casually) who is a impeccable fighter who is extremely skilled in offensive Force use. The Wizards fall just that little bit sooner.
Also, Quinlan Vos actually was in he movies RJ. He can distinctly be seen in The Phantom Menace on Tattooine in the background when the cast is walking on one of the streets. For some reason he doesn't notice Qui-Gon though.
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Last edited by Nephthys on Dec 23rd, 2009 at 02:05 AM
Apparating will be a valuable tool, especially half apparating, because the Jedi precog has been shown time and time again to be infallible. The wizard can also use the confundus charm/spell, or darkening powder, throwing the entire room into darkness.
Force scream is a no go, thats a Vader feat.
Dude, force crush? ROTS feats only, I was clear on ROTS Jedi only.
No EU bullshit.
Vos was never shown in ROTS.
Get ready for it......here it comes........Ready?
Fiendfyre.
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All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
Last edited by Rogue Jedi on Dec 23rd, 2009 at 02:12 AM
I'm sure it will for the two people who've used it. But no, its element of surprise effect is useless.
Not really. Give a scenario.
I think you mean fallible but whatever, precog is at least enough to tell where everyone is, it only gets overwhelmed when your trying to predict the paths of around 8-10 blaster bolts at a time, a threat the size of Voldemort or Dumbledore is not going to be missed if its going to appear right in front of you. Not to mention that jedi precog was being weakened throughout the movies by Sidious darkening the Force. So in scenario 2 at least it will be alot stronger.
Shown in film? By whom?
Wouldn't have any effect, Jedi can fight blindfolded as you've been told before. Also about your thoery that they'd be 'put off', Jedi don't actually use their eyes for the fighting most of the time. Considering they fight by waving a highly focused light right in front of their faces, that would be a little counter-productive.
Anakin has used it before he became Darth Vader and there is the point that he wasn't shown or in a position to be taught it after becoming Vader, so logic dictates that he would have had it before that time. Unless you're saying no as the thread-starter?
Fine.
EU is not bullshit. I'll accept that the feats cannot be shown (which was why I put them in brakets, so as not to be actually seriously be trying to use them), but the stuff that supports on-screen feats such as speed, mentality etc. That I'm using. It doesn't contradict the facts on screen in any way.
I never said he was.
Force Speed. If Voldemort or Dumbledore triy to use that long ass spell then someones going to feel it, run up to him and stab him in the face, or precog it and stab him, or snap his neck, or crush his head.
Force choke, and Anakin can only force "choke" one wizard at a time. Never saw Anakin literally "crushing" anything with the force, nor any other Jedi in ROTS.
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All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
The two people? Dude, all the death eaters can do it, the entire OOTP can do it, Voldy and Dumbles can do it, where have you been? And it's not useless, get off that. The wizards that can do it will be all over the place, everywhere at once, jumping around like Nightcrawler in the oval office.
Death eaters half apparating around wreaking havoc, casting spells as they go, you know, pretty much obliterating everything in their path.
And where was Lukes precog when Palpy zapped him? Where was Palpys when Vader tossed him? Where was it when Mace got pwned?
Hermione, THBP.
Just saying, it certainly wouldn't help matters.
I am saying that Vader is not in this thread. I am saying that the force scream is a Vader feat. Also it would probably take out several Jedi as well.
Good.
No, I love the EU too, it's just that it is not allowed here. All we can use is what is shown onscreen, that's the new rule Impediment imposed.
You said he was shown in TPM, I was merely saying that this thread is about ROTS, nevermind.
Voldemort can camp out on the roof of the Temple, casting the spell far out of reach of the Jedi. If he was on the ground, and a Jedi came at him, he simply apparates away and repeats the spell.
There is no escaping the fiendfyre, man. The few Jedi that TK it away from them, IF they can, will be death spelled. Voldemort controls the fiendfyre as if it were an extension of him, as does Dumbles, doubtful that TTK will affect it. The wizards can do much more than the Jedi, there's no use trying to figure on a Jedi victory here.
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All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
See, someone says "Sith and Jedi stomp.", you say "Yeah, not really.".
If you have already decided the outcome and, even more fanboyistically, how it will happen, then what is the point of these threads?
Once again it seems that you've just watched Harry Potter again and you're eager for a thread in which the characters win.
If you thought about threads BEFORE making them, you wouldn't be in this mess. I tried to suggest that to you so many times, but you never listen. Are alarm bells not ringing, RJ? Is the fact that this happens ALL the time not putting a red light on for you?