KillerMovies - Movies That Matter!

REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Home » Community » General Discussion Forum » Ammonia based solvent.

Ammonia based solvent.
Started by: Autokrat

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
  Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
Lucius
Unknown

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

Ammonia based solvent.

I've been trying to develop an alien species and I'm making them ammonia based with a nitrogen-phosphorous based biochemistry.

However I'm not sure how the plants would work out photosynthesis and what these aliens would breathe in and exhale.

Chlorine? Nitrogen?

Does anyone know what it might be?

And how would their blood work? Would they have sodium in their blood?

Old Post May 26th, 2010 02:48 AM
Lucius is currently offline Click here to Send Lucius a Private Message Find more posts by Lucius Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Dark Riddick
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location:

Account Restricted

i have no clue are you making some kinda fanfic or are you just a mad genius scientist in his basement plotting to kill the world?


__________________

Old Post May 26th, 2010 02:55 AM
Dark Riddick is currently offline Click here to Send Dark Riddick a Private Message Find more posts by Dark Riddick Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Lucius
Unknown

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i have no clue are you making some kinda fanfic or are you just a mad genius scientist in his basement plotting to kill the world?


I've been developing a "hard" (sort of) sci-fi and to that end, I want the one alien race I create to be actually alien in every way.

As opposed to some rubber forhead star trek alien of the week.

Old Post May 26th, 2010 02:57 AM
Lucius is currently offline Click here to Send Lucius a Private Message Find more posts by Lucius Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Symmetric Chaos
Fractal King

Gender: Male
Location: Ko-ro-ba

From GURPS: Space by Jon F. Zeigler and James L. Cambias

Ammonia could replace water as a
medium for life. Ammonia has a narrower
liquid temperature range than
water, so it would require a planet
with a very stable climate between -
108° Fahrenheit (-78° C) and -27° F (-
33° C). In that cold environment, it’s
possible for something like Terrestrial
nucleic-acid chains to function, or for
complex chains of nitrogen or carbon
and nitrogen to serve the same purpose.
Since complex nitrogen molecules
become highly unstable at liquid-
water temperatures, ammoniabased
organisms could be made of living
high explosive! (This does not
require the Explosive disadvantage,
however, because the temperatures
involved would kill the being
long before its molecules became
unstable.)

Ammonia-basedlife could conduct
photosynthesis if it evolved on a cold
Earth-type planet, or might tap the
heat differential between layers of a
gas giant world’s atmosphere. Such
creatures probably would not be oxygen-
breathers, since the chief source
of oxygen molecules for Earth-type
life (carbon dioxide) is a solid at
ammonia-life temperatures. Instead,
ammonia-based organisms might
breathe free hydrogen, either in a gas
giant atmosphere or liberated from
methane molecules on a cold
Terrestrial world.

Living creatures based on ammonia
should define their Temperature
Tolerance range as centered somewhere
between -100° F and -25° F;
they are not automatically Cold-
Blooded in the sense defined by the
disadvantage of that name, however.
Hydrogen-breathers may take the
disadvantage Fragile (Combustible) if
they spend lots of time in oxygen environments,
as their “air” can catch fire.
Since chemical reactions are slower at
ammonia temperatures, either a low
Basic Speed or Decreased Time Rate
might be appropriate.


__________________



Graffiti outside Latin class.
Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
A juvenal prank.

Last edited by Symmetric Chaos on May 26th, 2010 at 03:00 AM

Old Post May 26th, 2010 02:58 AM
Symmetric Chaos is currently offline Click here to Send Symmetric Chaos a Private Message Find more posts by Symmetric Chaos Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Lucius
Unknown

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
From GURPS by Jon F. Zeigler and James L. Cambias

Ammonia could replace water as a
medium for life. Ammonia has a narrower
liquid temperature range than
water, so it would require a planet
with a very stable climate between -
108° Fahrenheit (-78° C) and -27° F (-
33° C). In that cold environment, it’s
possible for something like Terrestrial
nucleic-acid chains to function, or for
complex chains of nitrogen or carbon
and nitrogen to serve the same purpose.
Since complex nitrogen molecules
become highly unstable at liquid-
water temperatures, ammoniabased
organisms could be made of living
high explosive! (This does not
require the Explosive disadvantage,
however, because the temperatures
involved would kill the being
long before its molecules became
unstable.)

Ammonia-basedlife could conduct
photosynthesis if it evolved on a cold
Earth-type planet, or might tap the
heat differential between layers of a
gas giant world’s atmosphere. Such
creatures probably would not be oxygen-
breathers, since the chief source
of oxygen molecules for Earth-type
life (carbon dioxide) is a solid at
ammonia-life temperatures. Instead,
ammonia-based organisms might
breathe free hydrogen, either in a gas
giant atmosphere or liberated from
methane molecules on a cold
Terrestrial world.

Living creatures based on ammonia
should define their Temperature
Tolerance range as centered somewhere
between -100° F and -25° F;
they are not automatically Cold-
Blooded in the sense defined by the
disadvantage of that name, however.
Hydrogen-breathers may take the
disadvantage Fragile (Combustible) if
they spend lots of time in oxygen environments,
as their “air” can catch fire.
Since chemical reactions are slower at
ammonia temperatures, either a low
Basic Speed or Decreased Time Rate
might be appropriate.


You are a time saver. I've been asking the google gods for hours...

Old Post May 26th, 2010 02:59 AM
Lucius is currently offline Click here to Send Lucius a Private Message Find more posts by Lucius Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
tsilamini
Junior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

there are some theories in astrobiology, however, that suppose because of how stable carbon bonds are, they might be required for the building blocks of life, similar to how it there very likely to be some type of "replicator", analogous to the gene, as that would be almost a universal necessity for the propogation of life.

I'm sure that is useless, as you said you wanted something specific, but I don't know chemistry well enough to help and wanted to make everyone hear my opinion anyways


__________________
yes, a million times yes

Old Post May 26th, 2010 03:01 AM
tsilamini is currently offline Click here to Send tsilamini a Private Message Find more posts by tsilamini Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Dark Riddick
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location:

Account Restricted

so these creatures would need to wear bio suits with nitrogen to keep from blowing if they invade earth if they plan on being on the planet for more then a couple of hours?

also with coolant units to keep the temp from hoing above 100 F


__________________

Old Post May 26th, 2010 03:02 AM
Dark Riddick is currently offline Click here to Send Dark Riddick a Private Message Find more posts by Dark Riddick Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Lucius
Unknown

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
so these creatures would need to wear bio suits with nitrogen to keep from blowing if they invade earth if they plan on being on the planet for more then a couple of hours?

also with coolant units to keep the temp from hoing above 100 F


They wouldn't want to invade Earth. To them its an horrific wasteland filled with acid oceans of water.

Old Post May 26th, 2010 03:05 AM
Lucius is currently offline Click here to Send Lucius a Private Message Find more posts by Lucius Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Symmetric Chaos
Fractal King

Gender: Male
Location: Ko-ro-ba

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
so these creatures would need to wear bio suits with nitrogen to keep from blowing if they invade earth if they plan on being on the planet for more then a couple of hours?

also with coolant units to keep the temp from hoing above 100 F


Going above -25F you mean. The negative sign on the 100 got moved in the shift from my PDF.


__________________



Graffiti outside Latin class.
Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
A juvenal prank.

Old Post May 26th, 2010 03:10 AM
Symmetric Chaos is currently offline Click here to Send Symmetric Chaos a Private Message Find more posts by Symmetric Chaos Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Dark Riddick
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location:

Account Restricted

oohh so it be extremely chilly winter storm in alaska type deal?


__________________

Old Post May 26th, 2010 03:14 AM
Dark Riddick is currently offline Click here to Send Dark Riddick a Private Message Find more posts by Dark Riddick Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Symmetric Chaos
Fractal King

Gender: Male
Location: Ko-ro-ba

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
oohh so it be extremely chilly winter storm in alaska type deal?


Yes, their comfortable living temperature would be about the same as a very bad Alaskan winter storm. Mind you, GURPS is not an academic source they're writing for gamers so this is likely biased in favor of producing something that works (but if you already have ammonia based life then that shouldn't matter).

Looking at their citation in the back of the book I might check out Life Beyond Earth: The Intelligent Earthling’s Guide to Life in the Universe (Morrow, 1980) and WhatDoes a Martian Look Like? (Wiley, 2002) for a slightly more respectable sources.


__________________



Graffiti outside Latin class.
Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
A juvenal prank.

Old Post May 26th, 2010 03:24 AM
Symmetric Chaos is currently offline Click here to Send Symmetric Chaos a Private Message Find more posts by Symmetric Chaos Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Dark Riddick
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location:

Account Restricted

interesting lets keep this going


__________________

Old Post Jun 19th, 2010 02:50 AM
Dark Riddick is currently offline Click here to Send Dark Riddick a Private Message Find more posts by Dark Riddick Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 08:05 PM.
  Last Thread   Next Thread

Home » Community » General Discussion Forum » Ammonia based solvent.

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< Contact Us - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.