So, does anyone find it kind of strange that age affected a Force User and their power? Tbh, I'm not seeing as to why age would affect someone's ability with The Force.
Their bodies grow old, but why would this affect something that is around them and part of the SWU as a whole?
I mean I get it, it's canon because we have Yoda saying
"Sicker I've become, old and weak."
Vader saying
"Your powers are weak old man."
So I'm not saying it shouldn't be canon. It's just...I never really figured as to it being a big deal regarding Force Users.
Well, in the case of dark siders, they suffer from more corruption which weakens them physically.
For light siders, it's probably just that their power improvements don't catch up to their age deterioration, so what happens is that they get weaker due to age and require stronger Force Valor to compensate, but their power doesn't increase as rapidly so they suffer slightly from the infirmities of age? Or they have to devote more of their strength in the Force to compensating for those infirmities and less on actual combat.
Because the Living Force. Remember the Force is in all living things and it is through living things that it manifests itself in the physical world as Living Force energy, something represented by midichlorians which are in fact in your cells.
Apply that to the process of aging and in makes sense, we know that there comes to a point in our lives or rather in the lives of our cells when we stop producing and start dying. This is likely true of midichlorians to and so the aging process would basically representing the Living Force slowly draining out of you, and becoming one with the Cosmic Force, until eventually there is nothing left and off into the Nether with you.
So that would explain why Jedi (and Sith) tend to peak upon reaching adulthood, and then decline with age.
Your grasp of Biology is a little off base. And no one reaches their prime just at reaching adulthood, rather they reach their prime at their biological prime, which doesn't happen for most until their early 30s.
I am more critical of the "Apply that to the process of aging and in makes sense, we know that there comes to a point in our lives or rather in the lives of our cells when we stop producing and start dying." That's not actually a true. And even if it was, mitochondria, which is a pretty good midichlorian analogue, reproduce independently and indefinitely.
It likely has more to do with the Force User's mind and body not being able to use the Force as well, not the midichlorians themselves.
Well it was my understand that our cells can only reproduce a finite number of times, which is why we age/die.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the Force User's mind and body not being able to use the Force as well" however. That said I don't think the emphasis should be put on midichlorians, but living tissue, as ultimately that is what produces Force energy, the midichlorians just let you communicate with it.
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Last edited by Beniboybling on May 3rd, 2015 at 04:23 PM
No. Aging is nowhere near understood, but currently we believe it has more to do with the break down of chromosomes, not cells themselves dying. That being said, we don't reproduce our mitochondria. They do that on their own and are unique onto themselves.
That doesn't make any sense, because the Jedi don't produce the Force energy they use. Like I said in a similar thread, Yoda would not be the most powerful Jedi of his time if the amount of living tissue he had determined his power. The issue most likely comes with the Jedi's body not being able to channel that energy, and for more practical reasons.
Interesting, I am not expert on biology so thanks. No, they do not, but living tissue is necessary for the Force to flow through them, which is why Vader's cybernetics were regarded as hindering his connection to the Force, its not the quantity of the living tissue that is important, but the quality.
The living Force is very much intrinsic to and reliant on life, so it stands to reason that when living tissue deteriorates, the living Force would be negatively effected also, and so yes indeed, there body would therefore become a less effective vessel/conduit for Force energy.
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Last edited by Beniboybling on May 3rd, 2015 at 07:56 PM
That still doesn't make any sense. Cybernetics within themselves have never hindered anyone else, and there are plenty of cyborgs about that are missing more than just an arm. Vader's issue has always had more to do with his own psychology and hindered training than his cybernetics. That never made any sense.
It does make sense, because the Force or rather the living Force is generated by living tissue. And to use the Force is to channel that energy through your living body.
This is taken from the Revenge of the Sith novelisation:
And you rage and scream and reach through the Force to crush the shadow who has destroyed you, but you are so far less now than what you were, you are more than half machine, you are like a painter gone blind, a composer gone deaf, you can remember where the power was but the power you can touch is only a memory, and so with all your world-destroying fury it is only droids around you that implode, and equipment, and the table on which you were strapped shatters, and in the end, you cannot touch the shadow.
As this is from George Lucas himself, which I believe makes it G-Canon:
However, after all of his limbs were severed, and he was extremely burned on Mustafar, he lost much of his Force potential. As Darth Vader, Skywalker was believed to have had roughly 80% of the strength of the Emperor. Had he sustained none of his injuries on Mustafar, he would have been twice as powerful.
And no, Vader is not unique. Lumiya, a cyborg and pupil of Vader's was unable to master Sith battle meditation, despite her expertise on its principles, which she attributed to her prostheses. General Grievous was pumped with Sifo-Dyas' blood, but it failed to give him Force sensitivity.
Indeed what doesn't make sense is that if the brain and blood of a Jedi were transplanted into a cyborg body such as Grievous', it would be able to use the Force.
However, if we are to understand midichlorians as mitichondria as you suggest, then I don't believe cybernetics would have an effect on one's midichlorian count, as like with mitichondria, its not the number in your entire body that's important, but in any given cell. Given that, Vader's connection to the Force would remain intact, but he'd still have difficulty channeling that Force energy, because his cybernetics would disrupt the flow.
A surmountable obstacle, but an obstacle nonetheless. And I think I'd say the same of physical infirmity.
I said it doesn't make sense, which is the point of this thread. I didn't say what you said was wrong. Quoting the writing that doesn't make sense doesn't make that writing make sense.
Take note Beni, GL doesn't say that Anakin's limbs weakened him. He just said that Anakin wouldn't be able to reach his potential, which is obvious, he never said that he was weakened overall to the point where he couldn't still be powerful.
Which is what I'm glad this new canon is doing. Showing that despite getting cut apart, Vader is still a huge powerhouse and now superior to his former self.
There is no biological reasoning behind it, and there is no in universe reason behind it, except for one person. That's why it doesn't make sense. The Force may be generated by life, but this isn't what a Jedi uses to use TK for instance. They use the Force as a whole, which any spec they could create on their own is insignificant next to. Otherwise, Sever would never do anything.
No, all there power does not come from their body, that's not what's important, what's important is the ability for that power to flow through the body, because the Force - and more importantly the living Force - can only flow through healthy, living tissue.
This is a concept well established in lore.I don't think its ever stated, by I would presume that was the case.
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Last edited by Beniboybling on May 4th, 2015 at 03:05 PM
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Anyone got any more ideas on the actual tbread though?
I recently discovered ANH Kenobi is supposedly stronger than ANH Yoda (per Lucas) and I don't know why, or how he'd lose such an immense amount of power in 17 years compared to his relatively humongous life span...
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That was probably when he was starting to die or some shit.
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No age means nothing in the Force. Yoda admitted he was old and weak because he was on his deathbed, and could do nothing to alter it. Vader was just taunting Obi-Wan and the latter's skills atrophied due to lack of training for 19 years.
May 3rd, 2015 05:22 AM
No, they do not, but living tissue is necessary for the Force to flow through them, which is why Vader's cybernetics were regarded as hindering his connection to the Force, its not the quantity of the living tissue that is important, but the quality.
