Ki Adi Mundi, Sora Bulq, Anoon Bondara, Luminara Unduli
*morals off
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
The team takes this with moderate difficulty. Any of these masters can hold off Savage, and Darth Maul cannot hope to defeat 3 Jedi Masters, any two would give him a ridiculously hard fight. In the alternative where they split into 2 v 2 it still ends in a Jedi victory as 2 Council Masters are too much for Savage, and a fight between Maul and 2 Councilors will be a long hard fight.
Orrrrrrrrrr this. (please log in to view the image)
Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr this. (please log in to view the image)
Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr this. (please log in to view the image)
Not for very long at all, though.
Good thing he has someone here to split the load with him.
I'm doubtful. The only people here with the chops to really pressure Savage are Sora and maybe Mundi if he has help, but then you factor in Savage's TK and it stops mattering as much. Then you think about what Maul is going to do when he gets his last master alone and.. it becomes even more clear who wins.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
A weakened Kenobi who had just finished whooping his and Savage's asses vs. 2-3 very alert Jedi Masters who are all far more powerful than Gallia. Adi Gallia is one of the weakest Masters on the Council, she lost pretty solidly to 2 sabers Grievous. Hell in the very image you just posted some mook Jedi is resisting their combined TK.
Are you serious? It took Savage two minutes to kill Gallia. 3 Council tier duelists will not take that long to defeat Maul.
Yes indeed, too bad the 4 Jedi masters are a bit too heavy for both of them.
I strongly disagree with how much this TK is going to factor in. Neither of them have KO'd from TK alone and they certainly haven't demonstrated the ability to use it mid combat while fending off another high tier opponent. Maul is no Dooku and Savage certainly is not.
I posted the Gallia instance to show Savage's willingness to use that technique, not as a power showing. If you want to know how powerful Savage is I'll direct you to him chucking Dooku and destroying Beskar, which by the way, is more than enough to suggest he'd throttle anyone here.
Chuckled at mook Jedi. They were masters selected by Windu specifically. They also have no showings one way or the other. Them resisting that TK is only a good feat for them, not an anti-feat for Maul and Savage. Also? Their TK was directed at an entire army composed of over a hundred soliders, not just those two.
You keep throwing "council level" around like the phrase matters to me. Gallia lasting that long is a great feat for Gallia. Nothing more.
Also, I've argued from the beginning that Maul and Savage will fight in unison. The only one unrealistically arguing that Maul has to solo three Jedi Masters in order to win this fight is you. Would be awfully convenient for your argument if Maul had to do that but unfortunately he doesn't.
Maul buried Kenobi under rubble and in another instance left him wheezing on the ground clutching his throat. Hell, without plot he could have closed his windpipe then and there. He's also dropped Aayla Secura while engaging Mace Windu at the same time. His ability to multi-task and quickly apply TK isn't something that should be in question.
Whenever Savage has been pressured by multiple opponents he's let out a repulse of telekinetic energy, one powerful enough even to stagger Maul in the comic Death Sentence, and in another instance, take Kenobi and Anakin off their feet. That kind of tactic is going to help substantially here because while the Jedi are coping with that, Maul is closing windpipes and smashing lightsaber defences to a pulp.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Seriously? Ataru makes Yoda exhausted after 30 seconds of swordplay with Dooku. Kenobi was utilizing Ataru for at least twice that amount of time.
Who is Beskar? And the Dooku thing is obviously a high end showing.
Gallia is not up to the level of the other great swordbeings of the Order. As I said, she lost to Grievous, solidly on neutral ground. Luminara, Sora, and Mundi would at least push Grievous to using 4 sabers if not defeat him.
Savage cannot hold off two Masters, and Maul would lose to 3. So no matter the balance they lose. As I said it took Savage a minute+ to end one Jedi Master who is solidly beneath most if not all the Masters here.
After Kenobi had spent the past 4 minutes fending off both Maul and his apprentice simultaneously. A scenario that Maul himself retreated from. And the second one is a nexus feat as far as I know.
You haven't cited a single instance of him multi-tasking. Kicking Aayla while fending off Mace is a martial application. And Aayla is hardly a veteran swordsman or a member of the Jedi Council, at best she's at the level of the weakest person on this team.
A repulse would be a poor strategem considering it'd also knock Maul off his feat. Second that is again a high end showing, which occurred right after he choked out Dooku and Ventress simultaneously given that he's never shown that level of power again for the duration of the series, I'd wager that he cannot replicate that on demand. Not to mention that Kenobi and Skywalker can be caught off guard as shown when Ventress of all people choked them both out at the same time.
Not to mention this battle takes place within the Illum taverns which is very likely a light side nexus.
__________________
The North Remembers
Last edited by Lord Stark on Sep 15th, 2015 at 07:50 PM
Kenobi has sparred intensely with Fisto for hours, and that's years prior to his fight against the brothers. I'm sure his stamina was just fine.
Mandalorian Iron. And yeah, he seems to have a lot of those.
If you're referring to the Obsession duel, I'd point out that Grievous killed her with trickery there by blade locking her and then crushing her throat with his other two hands. Otherwise, at best Grievous kicked her in their TCW duel. Kicking someone doesn't mean they've lost.
So, yeah. Really not seeing your point. Savage's plethora of dueling showings against Kenobi, Anakin, Plo + clones, Ventress etc are more than enough to facilitate his skill, and your only response to his power thus far is "high end showing! high end showing!"
The only thing you could possibly be referring to is a palace located in a place called "Pleem's Nexus", which both isn't a Force nexus and wasn't where Maul choked Kenobi.
Shit outta luck there.
Technically, I have. More to the point though, you're gravely overestimating how long it takes Maul to close a windpipe or throw someone through a cave (hint: less than a second). Where he could be kicking Aayla he could alternatively send her flying with a blast.
Who was fighting next to Mace ****ing Windu.
I'm sure Maul would recover from it a little faster than Anoon Bondara. You're missing the main point that the team have no answer for Savage's overwhelming power when he chooses to use it. Maul catching a blast isn't going to be as crippling as you seem to want it to be. Probably just piss him off.
Sure, he can't evoke that level of emotion on demand. He also doesn't need to, because those he is fighting in this thread don't stack up to the people Savage throws around in other scenarios. And his other power feats (throwing armies around with Maul, busting supposedly impenetrable prison cells, shoving shuttles around very early on in his training) just add fuel to the fire.
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Source? Not to mention sparring against Fisto for hours using Soresu is not the same as fighting for your life against two Sith Lords utilizing everything you've got.
No I'm referring to his utter trouncing of her here. Uh yes it does, considering later in the episode she is captured and has to be rescued by Plo Koon. Occam's Razor, Grievous defeated her with that kick.
Its not just "high end showing! high end showing!" Its that if Savage and Maul could simply TK Jedi Masters with impunity anytime they want they would have simply TKed Ventress and Kenobi (who are their inferiors in the Force) or simply choked out Kenobi when they had him cornered. There's literally no evidence that on any given day Savage or even Maul can just casually choke out Kenobi.
Where did he choke Kenobi? I'm pretty sure a user here debunked that feat. But hey I'm willing to concede that point. Can you post the context? And even so its pretty damned obvious he cannot do that whenever he wants or he would have in their duels.
Prove it. To my knowledge, Maul has never killed Jedi with force choke, let alone a master.
The duel lasted like a panel bro. For all we know Maul jumped in and kicked Aayla and sliced at Mace. Stop embellishing the feat and making it seem like its the best shit since sliced bread.
You literally have no proof that Maul or Savage can overpower the collective force defenses of 4 Jedi masters. If Savage uses repulse they'll just block it. Similar to what Kenobi and Skywalker did when Dooku used his TK on obi-diah. Not to mention the Jedi aren't gonna sit there and let him TK them.
Uh, yes it is. Illum was discovered by a Jedi sensing Ilum's powerful presence from hyperspace. The Force is present within each individual crystal. Not to mention a Padawan being guided by the Force itself kind of like a wand choosing a wizard an Olivander's shop don't exactly happen on regular planets.
Kenobi's lost to Grievous as well. It's not that bad losing to Grievous, even though a Council Member should really be able to take him.
Also Grievous has fought better with 2 Sabers than with 4. When he only uses 2, he tends to surprise his opponents with attacks from his free hands.
Tbf we didn't see how she was captured. It could have been due to his forces overpowering her troops.
Context was Kenobi desperately running towards Maul trying to free a hostage. So Maul obviously caught him off guard, because a Saber fight hadn't even begun. Still a great feat for Maul, and shows the Council Members will all have to approach him very carefully.
But still I agree with you, that Maul obviously can't just do that to Kenobi anytime he wants. I'd have doubts even Dooku could do that to Kenobi anytime he likes.
Eh, but Kenobi never got captured by Grievous. At worst Grievous has the advantage.
Eh, I'd argue that 20 hits per second more than likely would trounce more opponents than just the surprise factor.
Occam's Razor. The path with the fewest assumptions should be taken. We see Gallia being flung back by Grievous the next time we see her she's captured. Sure Grievous could have had an extended battle with her or captured her with the assistance of battle droids, but then I could also argue that Darth Sidious himself was right behind Grievous and lol blitzed Gallia.
I'd agree with that. But I also think the notion that Maul is going to lol snap their windpipes with a gesture is unfounded.
Dooku can't do it anytime. Kenobi blocks his TK on Obi-Dia (granted with Skywalker's help, but considering all the dudes next to him got blown away I'd bet neither of them helped shield the other.
People using Savage's rage performance with Kenobi and Skywalker as a justification of what he can consistently replicate is just as ridiculous as saying Kenobi can solo Maul and Savage any day of the week. Its an outlyer. Sure it can happen but it'll happen 2 or 3 times out of 10.
He did get captured. Grievous pretty much blitzed him. In the final Unaired Kyber Crystal arc on the official site, which is Canon.
But that's just making an argument out of a speed feat which was successfully blocked anyway.
In terms of actual performances though, Grievous has almost always fought better with 2 Sabers.
There's no need to make any assumptions though, as we didn't see how Gallia got captured. There's a hundred different ways she could have got captured.
But hey, one of those might be her getting blitz by Grievous the way Kenobi did
Except there's absolutely no reason to believe Sidious was there. But we know as a fact Grievous's forces were there, as were Gallia's forces.
And it's also pretty Unlikely Gallia could be captured if Grievous's forces didn't overpower Gallia's forces. Whilst it would also be very Unlikely for Gallia to escape if she stalemated (or even beat) Grievous but her Forces got overpowered.
Sep 14th, 2015 06:28 PM
