Well, the Fifth Brother and Seventh Sister were both using the Force simultaneously to hold back the Phantom, and even then it wasn't going at full thrust. The Seventh Sister doesn't hold the power even close to the point where she'd be able to hold it by herself, which was made clear, and we don't know exactly how much the Fifth Brother was contributing to holding back the shuttle.
I'm not entirely sure about how the Grand Inquisitor stacks up against the Fifth Brother and Seventh Sister power-wise. If there was a quote confirming his superiority I'd be interested to see it.
I find him stopping the bolt very impressive, as well as him blocking the saber strikes in the novel. Those feats demonstrate a greater mastery of the Force than the Inquisitors have, I think.
Kylo is hyped as the greatest student Snoke has ever had. In contrast, the Gran Inquisitor has the very basics of Dark Side knowledge, if you take Everything You Need to Know's word for it. Even if his training is "incomplete," so was Maul's and Vader's iirc, it obviously outclasses the Inquisitors.
Even a small fraction of the energy for either is pretty large given orders of magnitude are pretty damn ridiculous for joules.
Wouldn't figure the Phantom was moving particularly slowly either given its laser cannon shots looked little faster, and those need to tag ships that fly at top atmospheric speed/the hilariously high speeds they can reach in a vacuum (episode 2, season 1 of the clone wars illustrates my point best. Around 19 minutes in IIRC)
Looked more like a stamina issue given she did keep it there briefly
No it isn't given my above and barring you having some quote that suggests 2 Force Users together = exponential power, we don't need to know who did most of the work for sure or at all. Someone did the feat. Someone in this thread gets credit. Doesn't matter who.
Hearsay, but I heard something about being a notch below Ventress from Filoni? Not that I was given a link though
Might as well mention it though to see if it pops up here I guess though.
Reflexes?
Sure
Raw power?
Ask yourself, does a blaster bolt destroy shit via Kinetic Energy? Yes or no, the feat remains underwhelming, just for different reasons I can try explaining when not stuck on a phone.
Saber blocking I give you given that means matching the energy of the blade
Which is the implicit thing I mention in the OP
Just was looking to see if more direct existed (quotes comparing him to someone).
When were these people Snoke's students?
We have a source on that?
Or, summary... why is being Snoke's greatest student impressive when we know nothing about any students but Ren
Last edited by ChaosTheory123 on Jan 4th, 2016 at 11:43 PM
1. Being a student of Snoke's makes you a student of Snoke's.
2. An apprentice won't be held back, as Inquisitors are.
3. Kylo is the most powerful student Snoke has ever had and is master of the Knights of Ren.
Not to mention the general feel that the First Order produces greater quality than the Empire that is stressed in this movie. Logically, he should be better than the randoms Ahsoka absolutely stomps.
What do we know about Snoke that even really suggests he matches Sidious in the first place beyond potential implications?
Or that Ren's training was anywhere near complete? Or we know the point Ren was even at in his training compared to an Inquisitor?
Even incompletely trained with basic knowledge, there's going to be a time they hold an edge over the neophyte apprentice. The apprentice isn't stronger from the get go by virtue of his apprenticeship
Worthless without any actual comparison linking what Sidious did with Snoke
How's a student of Snoke's compare to Sidious'?
Do we have anything telling us yet? Or is this all assumption based on feeling?
So you WERE going the nil substance route :hmm
Yeah, I feel as though I'd have suffocated taking your lesson seriously :maybe
Obviously not, which stresses the point. None of the Inquisitor's are the student of anyone. They're only taught enough to kill Jedi, which muggles can do. That's like their whole thing.
Which has nothing to do with anything.
How do you summon someone to complete their training if they haven't started it yet? That's like wow levels of wow.
Neophyte? He's been training since he was a young boy, both as a Jedi and whatever Snoke is. He's 30 years old. He's not a neophyte, kek.
Again, how is this relevant. By the very fact that Kylo is not barebones, he's ahead of the Inquisitor's in knowledge, and his potential is through the roof.
None of the Inquisitors are Sidious' students. Like none. Even if you consider Vader, Maul, or Dooku, that only stresses the point that not having complete training does not make you a "neophyte."
The amount of irony in this would put 20s America to shame. I built enough skyscrapers to turn New York into a small town. I built one to the moon and back, and have plans in motion to reach Mars soon. Where's your substance that the Inquisitor's are actually anything you claim they are when all they have done is lose to people who weren't even Knighted? Obviously, Kanan and Ahsoka aren't average, but pretending Kylo is even more retarded.
So why are you trying to use this quote about him being the best student?
And being ignorant to how Inquisitor's get power, that's fair
Still makes Ren being Snoke's greatest student without actual known students to compare him to worthless
Indeed
Yet you're so assured his training is complete enough to compete with the feats of an Inquisitor
Curious :maybe
Time frame's irrelevant, given training in fiction it's as effective as the story requires it to be (Bleach is probably the most horrendous and glaring example ever)
His feats suck and his accolades are vague or lacking any real dots to connect with
Sans the feat I already attribute enough to grant him some powerscaling (the saber deflection), the rest of your argument is junk
Sure, only one part of the whole needs to function here, but I'm looking for how well you can defend your whole argument
He has vastly better potential, sure. That's obvious
What's your support that he's tapped into it enough to surpass the Inquisitors?
If all you have is the saber blocking, that's fine, I was just curious if you had more
That's what you're assuming
We're not really given any amazing insight into the quality of Ren's training
Substance, give me something. If all you've got is the tutaminis/barrier, that's all you need, but I was curious about there being more.
If you put this kind of effort into your argument, we'd be getting somewhere :maybe
Last edited by ChaosTheory123 on Jan 5th, 2016 at 12:33 AM
I think what it proves is that we don't have enough information on Kylo Ren to reach concrete conclusions.
That said Kylo has been described as "an incredible power, an incredible force, and incredible potential" by J.J, is descended from the most powerful lineage in mythos and has evidently developed his skills to a significant level. He may not have sufficient feats to support it (purely a result of a lack of exposure) but the idea that he is weaker than any one Inquisitor is pretty improbable imo.
And you're right, the lightsaber deflection feat is pretty impressive, especially when we account for the fact he was severely weakened and the energy they emit. I also give him props for his Force stun ability as far as precision and mastery is concerned.
Also if you are looking for a compilation of feats/quotes here is a good respect thread:
Just know that some feats/quotes can slip through the cracks (like I think I had to comment on the Canon Luke thread missing the script references to him deflecting Vader's TK in ESB and initially countering Sidious' lightning in RotJ), hence the purpose of this thread
Jan 4th, 2016 09:09 PM
I also give him props for his Force stun ability as far as precision and mastery is concerned.
