Low Meta Championship of the World Title Tussle
For this brutal belt bout, we have Daken being represented by MrMind vs Azrael being represented by yours truly Supermutant.
Standard forum rules and general knowledge of opponents. Normal versions of characters and standard gear. Win by death, knockout, or incapacitation. Three posts limit, and below is the battlefield:
No Quarter Given No Mercy Shown
SUPERMUTANT’S OP:
First huge props to Mr. Mind for stepping up very quickly after Alberto bailed on this BZ.
Daken is tough no doubt about that. But Azrael’s gear, metahuman stats, training from the System, and skills makes him pretty close to being the perfect one to take him out. I will try a somewhat different format for this BZ, where I will show Daken being defeated or owned first. Then I will show how Azrael Jean Paul Valley (JPV) can defeat Daken the very same or extremely similar way.
Daken is no Logan, he doesn’t have Logan’s adamantium skeleton or his fighting experience and skills. Daken’s healing factor has not prevented him for being koed, incapacitated, and even killed. Also the starting distance, and the environment, are all to my advantage judges as you shall see. “Let’s go bub!”
1.
Daken koed by one arrow in his head from Clint Barton as Ronin.
https://imgur.com/iK58aXF
https://imgur.com/dkf0kNX
Notice that Daken actually got the drop on Clint while he was shooting Bullseye. And Clint was still able to recover and counterattack to quickly incapacitate him.
Daken will suffer this same type of defeat from Azrael’s gauntlet blades as they can be fired as projectiles. Except there will be no surprise attack from Daken as they are both standing in line of sight at the standard starting distance of .5 kilometers in this match. To attack JPV, Daken has to charge towards him like with Clint, and JPV will be firing a flaming blade through his skull like below.
Projectile blade goes straight thru a guy’s skull and the tree behind him, before he can fire.
Gauntlet blades can easily cut off Metallo’s arms. And of course Daken doesn’t have his father’s metal bones.
2.
Bullseye dressed as Hawkeye stabbed Daken in the face with just a knife causing him pain. Daken’s healing factor is the only thing that saved him as Lester was able to stab him first.
https://imgur.com/obzejei
https://imgur.com/MttpjBr
https://imgur.com/x0qPje9
Imagine what JPV’s flaming sword will do to his skull which is far more damaging than just a regular knife. And JPV isn’t just going to stab him in the face, he is going to cut off his head. And/or any other limbs as his sword far exceeds the range of Daken’s claws, and he is more skilled than him. Moreover, JPV’s armor will allow him to take withstand way more punishment than Bullseye could.
More evidence that Daken’s powers does not prevent him for losing limbs or being decapitated.
https://imgur.com/dxfqmwG
https://imgur.com/0o33W70
And JPV is better and faster at slicing and dicing with his flaming gauntlet blades.
https://imgur.com/5ZuqVq8
https://imgur.com/ooUuEq8
3.
Daken koed by electric shock from generator to nervous system vs spider-man.
Similarly Daken will also be koed from Azrael’s Angel Wrath blast that shuts down the central nervous system of others. Its an ultimate one-shot attack, and Daken does not have a defense to it.
https://imgur.com/LMClWwp
https://imgur.com/hJn0Fou
https://imgur.com/5PWAY2c
https://imgur.com/Z4NEkyd
4.
Daken drowned in small puddle from fire hydrant by Wolverine. Just look at the first post in this thread, because there is a fire hydrant there lol.
JPV has lifted up the large bat-computer monitor over his head and thrown it. Much to the surprise of Batman, Robin, and Nightwing. He has effortlessly juggled 600 lbs and even lifted that weight with one hand. He has also lifted a car and flipped it under water without his suit. Therefore, holding down Daken the same way as Wolverine did for a couple of seconds in a small puddle of water, certainly is no problem for him.
https://imgur.com/qcL943J
https://imgur.com/LGjaKkK
https://imgur.com/tZNYzQ4
https://imgur.com/x8oJr62
https://imgur.com/x0kVxGc
https://imgur.com/bZH0Io8
5.
Even though this was from behind, it still shows that Daken can be knocked out from physical force.
https://imgur.com/VAy6XDD
https://imgur.com/dr6cLs1
And Azrael hits with so much force that he is on occasion able to 1-shot Bane. JPV has the striking power and skills to ko Daken with his armored gauntlets.
https://i.imgur.com/zIP6iRY.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8QuNPeI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sZO69kI.jpg
In summary, as seen below JPV is quick enough to stalemate Deathstroke in a sword duel. Daken and JPV are pretty even in most stats. But JPV has the far superior weapons and gear, plus far better range options with one-shot capabilities. Furthermore the environment and starting distance immensely favors him over Daken. I have listed no less than 5 different ways that JPV is able to win this match despite Daken healing factor. And there are still even more ways for JPV to win, in which I will go into details about in my next post.
Because of JPV’s System training, his mask/armor, and the Batman AI that’s still in his head, Daken’s pheromones will not be able to affect him.
JPV dressed as Batman is easily and quickly able to overcome Scarecrow’s concentrated fear toxin. Scarecrow was astonished that he overcame it so rapidly and exclaimed, “it’s impossible...the amount you took, you should be out for an hour!”
https://imgur.com/lxy69W2
https://imgur.com/DyM4Kun
So Daken,
MR. MIND’S OP:
Azrael is good. He has enhanced strength speed and durability. His sword of sin (flaming sword) is of course supernatural in nature. With weapons like flamethrowers, batarangs, claws. ...Which none of them will be fast enough to even hit Daken.
Daken can dodges point blank shot, close range fires. From top level killers like punisher or deadpool
http://i.imgur.com/4qt8As0.png
http://i.imgur.com/hoD043N.png
He’s fast enough to cut off the hand of someone as skilled as deadpool from far away, before deadpool can pull the trigger
https://i.imgur.com/05kh6k3.png
https://i.imgur.com/eOnAUFG.png
You think Azrael is fast and agile? Because its NYC with buildings he can just attack Daken from different angles? Not likely, Daken can catch spiderman’s attack from behind and spiderman is much faster than azrael
http://i.imgur.com/KJtGoRL.png
http://i.imgur.com/2t9vFAe.png
Skaar a character leagues above Azrael, has thrown giant rocks at high speed, daken dodges no problem. Swinging giant freakin truck? Dodges no problem
Dodges attacks from another formidable opponent like the Thing with style and grace
Catches deadpool’s leg without trying then easily stab him.
http://i.imgur.com/Tdu2snl.png
http://i.imgur.com/KP0oKjz.png
http://i.imgur.com/ubmg6td.png
https://i.imgur.com/1s4Dxh4.png
Speed will be the deciding factor here
He outclasses Azrael in the speed department for sure. Strength? Now this one is closer, Azrael is pretty strong himself, certainly more enhanced than the batfamily. But not enough to compete with daken. You think Azrael will be able to throw wolverine or X-23 through the wall?
http://i.imgur.com/iakqtl0.png
http://i.imgur.com/IwQg4A0.png
Azrael had impressive track record against Red Hood, Tim Drake , Huntress and even Bane, or other Gotham villains. But Daken has impressive record against Wolverine, Deadpool, X-Men, even Iron Man, F4 and Skaar. He has killed asgardians in battle, fought with marvel top heroes and villains. I don’t want to turn this into a who vs who debate. But this need to take into account one is playing in NBA with the big boys, the other is in Europe League.
Azrael has slight healing factor that can heal him from injuries over time. Daken has withstand massive explosion in the face. And was fine moments later
http://i.imgur.com/Dq0JNcM.png
http://i.imgur.com/ax0rycV.png
https://i.imgur.com/Wu6qzn0.jpg
Even superheated plasma is like sauna to him
https://i.imgur.com/3y7hcyZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Qi17gOh.jpg
There’s no need to post further, provin Daken’s healing factor>Azrael is like provin water is wet
Azrael’s armor is able to take hits from bullets sure, but Daken’s claw has chipped Diamond Form Emma. The claw will connect and it will pierce through Azrael like a hot knife through butter
https://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h337/The_Gambit/Daken/ChipsEmmasDiamondForm.jpg.html
Stradegy
This battle starts at NYC. Daken dying without healing factor has fought A-Class marvel superheroes Avengers and F4 in NYC. This is gonna be a cakewalk
The battle starts .5km away in the concrete jungle, Daken has enhanced animal senses, he will know from the get go where Azrael is. No matter which buildings Azrael trying to hide. Daken will use pheromones to suppress his own sense so no one can track him so Azrael will not know where Daken is. Then Daken will hide in different buildings looking for a chance to strike like a natural borned killer.
The stealth of Daken, going in and out of marvel’s top facilities like a ghost. Whether it’s avengers tower or baster building. So Azrael will not know where he’s coming
https://imgur.com/a/bQlh5
https://imgur.com/a/RuD1W
One is in the dark the other in the light. Daken will use pheromones to alter perception of Azrael leaving him confused with fear losing all the willpower to fight. The pheromones will work just like it worked on many others before (Cyber, Bullseye, Wolverine, Deadpool, Skaar, Punisher). So tremendous advantage in a battle from the get go, plus he outstats Azrael in almost every categories. There will be only one logical conclusion, he will cut Jean-Paul’s head clean off.
My opponent Mr. Mind had a very nice opening post. But I think he may have underestimated a bit what all JPV brings to the table, and somewhat overstated Daken’s abilities and combat performances.
Mr. Mind mentions Daken dodging bullets sometimes which is pretty standard for street levelers/low metas. But as I have already shown Hawkeye can tag him with projectiles just fine, plus as you can see below the same for Bullseye.
And the Winter Soldier has koed Daken by shooting him in the back of the head, right after Wolverine announced that Bucky was going to fire. Now it was a carbonadium bullet, but the point is that Daken got hit by a projectile weapon from long range.
Also the Punisher has shot Daken from close quarters and was able to land blows/attacks in combat. Daken does get hit quite often from projectile attacks and combat by streets and low metas, and that will be no different here.
https://imgur.com/QUSlgtF
https://imgur.com/Wj2TjHE
The big difference in this battle is that JPV will be slicing and dicing off limbs with his flaming sword and/or gauntlet blades, and not just stabbing Daken with a combat knife. His blade has cut in half a snowmobile in one swipe, Daken’s torso will also be cut in half the same way.
Originally posted by MrMind
Daken can dodges point blank shot, close range fires. From top level killers like punisher or deadpool...He’s fast enough to cut off the hand of someone as skilled as deadpool from far away, before deadpool can pull the trigger
This is how a serious Deadpool fights and owns Daken (when Wade isn’t stupidly monologuing while not even looking at Daken). Notice how he out-maneuvers Daken with speed/agility and shoots him multiple times, while dealing with other Brotherhood members. I really like how Deadpool blocks Daken initial claw attack rush with his sword, if only Azrael used a sword or wait he does.
Mr. Mind own scan shows Spider-Man tagging him in the face with webbing and kicking him, plus I have already shown Peter using the environment, an electric generator to ko him.
So Daken is certainly not above Azrael in speed, agility, or reflexes. Thing and Skaar are non flying bricks, it’s pretty common for low metas and streets to dodge those type of characters. And Thing did eventually manage to grab Daken, although Daken plan was for his pheromones to enraged him.
https://imgur.com/XCEj5h2
https://imgur.com/zr6PdVr
JPV will be able to hit him just fine, just like he matched Deathstroke as previously shown. And has stalemated Cassandra Cain and Batwoman simultaneously as seen below, even though he wasn’t in his right mind.
JPV has also deflected bullets with his sword. His speed feats are on par with Daken and he has better combat showings than Daken.
https://imgur.com/LGIEXFi
https://imgur.com/TwFpE7P
The Sixth way JPV can win is with his ability to overwhelmed a person’s mind like he does with Bane below. And I know that Daken has resistance to telepathy, but this isn’t TP. This is more like putting your opponent in a confused mental state where they will become easy pickings to finish off.
6.
Again all it took for JPV to do the same to Red Robin was one touch. This whacked out state takes the fight right out of Azrael’s opponent. Then a follow up attack like cutting off Daken’s head will finish him out. And Daken has a lot of sins to answer for similar to Bane, so he will definitely be mentally stunned and out of it.
https://imgur.com/kA5wrUh
https://imgur.com/G7wlAdj
https://imgur.com/Q7WmNGh
7.
Fire blasts or Area of Effect blasts/force with sword or gauntlets.
Fire gauntlets can create enough force to quickly blast through thick stone.
https://i.imgur.com/AQaRnBS.jpg
Fire sword cause explosion that completely destroys huge mech weapon.
https://imgur.com/KGvaPvQ
https://imgur.com/39X1v81
Fire sword creates enough force to destroy a city.
https://imgur.com/gOm27hw
https://imgur.com/QzGIHBo
https://imgur.com/LeqZP6b
Remember Mr. Mind’s plan:
Originally posted by MrMind
Then Daken will hide in different buildings looking for a chance to strike like a natural borned killer.
Well now Daken has ton of debris falling upon him from collapse buildings that JPV is blasting apart. And even if that doesn’t ko him, it will most definitely take a toll on him, allowing JPV to just finish him off. Furthermore, Gambit was manhandling Daken pretty good with his staff, skills, and kinetic energy until he was distracted by X-23 being in trouble. JPV will do the same with his sword, skills, and fire blast/force attacks, except he will have no distractions.
Therefore, at the end of this match there is only one man left standing. There is only one winner.
Post 2- part 1 Rebuttal of Supermutant’s OP
Basically you are hoping Daken will run straight at Azrael when the bell ring, so Azrael have time to use long range weapon to try take him out, then use close range weapon assuming Daken will trade blow to blow with Azrael. Unfortunately Daken does not have the brain of Bizarro. He is a master manipulator and strategist.
You mentioned a lot of low feats of Daken. I am not sure how this will effect this fight. As you can see everyone has low feats. I am not going to find Azrael’s feats specifically to lowball. But keep in mind, Azrael has taken a beating from Nightwing.
https://imgur.com/a/LvqFY8d
Daken koed by one arrow in his head from Clint Barton as Ronin.Notice that Daken actually got the drop on Clint while he was shooting Bullseye. And Clint was still able to recover and counterattack to quickly incapacitate him.
Ah the good old scene of Clint invade the dark avengers tower, as badass as it was this was more of a PIS moment, Ronin prepared an ambush throwing venom off the tower, shooting Bullseye and Daken. Before getting taken out by Ares. it’s way of letting hero goes off gloriously before defeat. I mean moonstone did not even want to fight him. This scenario does not apply here where both combatants are ready to fight.
Projectile blade goes straight thru a guy’s skull and the tree behind him, before he can fire.
https://imgur.com/cG4U9pX
Gauntlet blades can easily cut off Metallo’s arms. And of course Daken doesn’t have his father’s metal bones.
https://imgur.com/LR8pMhi
Starting .5km in a crowded city, where there are infinite objects to hide from. Daken is not going to fight dumb and charge in a straight line. Even if they are at line of sight in the beginning. (500 meters away they are basically a dot to each other).
Once Daken moves out of sight Then what? Daken turns on his heighten animal senses and will still know where Azrael is, but how will Azrael find Daken? If Daken can dodge point blank firearms, what makes you think projectile from 500 meters away gonna do any damage?
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6358330-easily+dodges+bullets%28dw+79%29.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11117/111178634/6358331-leaps+over+multiple+bullets%28ddw+1%29.jpg
He dodges FrankenCastle in point blank range, that’s bullet timing
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111178634/6358336-dodges+bullet+close+range%28dw+88%29.jpg
Bullseye dressed as Hawkeye stabbed Daken in the face with just a knife causing him pain. Daken’s healing factor is the only thing that saved him as Lester was able to stab him first.Imagine what JPV’s flaming sword will do to his skull which is far more damaging than just a regular knife. And JPV isn’t just going to stab him in the face, he is going to cut off his head. And/or any other limbs as his sword far exceeds the range of Daken’s claws.
Bullseye is afternoon snacks for Daken
https://imgur.com/pgElBrH
Getting stabbed in the chest by a giant fauchard does nothing to Daken except making him slightly annoyed. Cutting and stabbing is not gonna do much, unless you cut off his head. Which is not gonna happen because of Daken’s superior speed
https://imgur.com/J6Lu5KU
https://imgur.com/qX6vASx
Daken is not afraid of the heat as I showed the plasma feat in OP, he was also unharmed from Human Torch’s attack, safe to say Sword on fire is nothing
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6358427-unharmed+from+johnnys+punches+1%28ddw+4%29.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6358428-unharmed+from+johnnys+punches+2%28ddw+4%29.jpg
JPV’s armor will not withstand the stab, once it connects he will get pierce through, other than chipped Emma’s diamond form like shown earlier
The claw easily pierced Marcus who was bullet proof
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6358647-pierce+through+marcus%28ddw+19%29.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6358648-macus+is+bulletproof%28ddw+19%29.jpg
In a possible future it pierced through Iron Patriot armor, though didn’t happen, it shows that this is a likely scenario
http://i.imgur.com/CYT9d9J.png
More evidence that Daken’s powers does not prevent him for losing limbs or being decapitated.
Even losing limbs, he will still end Azrael. Here without arm with no healing factor, Daken owns a freaking ice giant
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6358699-stomps+ice+giant+1%28wolverines+9%29.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6358701-stomps+ice+giant+2%28wolverines+9%29.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6358702-stomps+ice+giant+3%28wolverines+9%29.jpg
Similarly Daken will also be koed from Azrael’s Angel Wrath blast that shuts down the central nervous system of others. Its an ultimate one-shot attack, and Daken does not have a defense to it.
Like I shown before, he has the speed to dodge the blast.
And even if connects, there’s no evidence that Daken cannot survive it. This is Daken, not random cooks. He has withstand being hit by truck at full speed
https://imgur.com/c5m8j6D
https://imgur.com/MEtWJl9
Endures explosion again
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6358408-endures+explosion+1%28dw+80%29.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6358409-endures+explosion+2%28dw+80%29.jpg
Gets blasted by Moses Magnum and was fine
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6358410-gets+blasted+by+moses+magnum+1%28dw+79%29.jpg
JPV has lifted up the large bat-computer monitor over his head and thrown it. Much to the surprise of Batman, Robin, and Nightwing. He has effortlessly juggled 600 lbs and even lifted that weight with one hand. He has also lifted a car and flipped it under water without his suit. Therefore, holding down Daken the same way as Wolverine did for a couple of seconds in a small puddle of water, certainly is no problem for him.
Azrael’s strong no doubt, but Daken no slouch himself, he holds X-23 with one arm
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6358384-restrains+laura%28wolverines+11%29.jpg
He rivals wolverine in strength and we all know how strong wolverine is
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6358354-logan+calls+him+his+equal%28wo+48%29.jpg
Throws car door like it’s dodgeball
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6359032-throws+car+door.jpg
Throws frankencastle and which destroy a swat car
https://imgur.com/WRRdUaz
Because of JPV’s System training, his mask/armor, and the Batman AI that’s still in his head, Daken’s pheromones will not be able to affect him.
I have to address this important detail first, JPV shown to have a resistance to mental manipulation because of the system. But pheromones works on the nervous system. So no evidence JPV can resist that
Daken and JPV are pretty even in most stats. But JPV has the far superior weapons and gear, plus far better range options with one-shot capabilities. Furthermore the environment and starting distance immensely favors him over Daken. I have listed no less than 5 different ways that JPV is able to win this match despite Daken healing factor.
Just because JPV has long range weapon doesn’t mean he can find Daken, Daken is as fast as wolverine, he can go to many areas hiding. He was raised as an assassin, this is a no brainer for him.
https://imgur.com/CVRSgKT
Here is him speedblitzing wolverine
http://i.imgur.com/oR4geIq.png
http://i.imgur.com/n7HPo1g.png
JPV have more weapons better gear, but Daken is the better fighter and more skilled, the guy has lived 60-70 years, and fought many. Nice strike technique used on Venom
https://imgur.com/tiJHIze
Takes out multiple assassins within a moment with ease, showing both speed and skill
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6358671-stomps+multiple+assailants%28ddw+1%29.jpg
Cyber admits Daken is more skilled
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6358654-more+skilled+than+cyber%28wo+14%29.jpg
environment does not favor Azrael. Like my op stated, Daken will go in hiding like a cold blooded assassin waitin to strike.
1.He’s significantly faster than Azrael so Azrael cannot hit him.
2.He has pheromones to suppress his own senses and go in hiding
3.He has pheromones to leave Azrael confused and scared
4.His claws can pierce through Azrael’s armor
5.Daken’s stealth gives him the advantage of being in the Dark while JPV is exposed
6.His healing factor will give him a second chance while Azrael’s doesn’t
7.Did I mention He is faster? cannot stress this enough, speed plus able to hurt opponent makes 80 percent of the match
“5 different ways that JPV is able to win” eh?
Post 2: Part 2- Rebuttal Supermutant’s Post 2
Mr. Mind mentions Daken dodging bullets sometimes which is pretty standard for street levelers/low metas. But as I have already shown Hawkeye can tag him with projectiles just fine, plus as you can see below the same for Bullseye.
https://imgur.com/RYf9NM5
Did you...not read the story? Daken got hit on purpose it was his plan, Bullseye was able to harpoon Daken, only because Daken want him to. So he can get bullseye’s harpoon to stab Human Torch, blame it on Bullseye. Start shit up between Dark Avengers and F4
https://imgur.com/1fwcg1J
https://imgur.com/ez94ZC2
https://imgur.com/a/oH87vZU
The punisher scan you showed, Punisher got killed in that fight with Daken.
And the Winter Soldier has koed Daken by shooting him in the back of the head, right after Wolverine announced that Bucky was going to fire. Now it was a carbonadium bullet, but the point is that Daken got hit by a projectile weapon from long range.
https://imgur.com/a/XxVv0Sb
Too bad Azrael doesn’t have carbonadium bullet here. Daken gets hit by bullets all the time just like Wolverine Deadpool X-23 or anyone with great HF that heal bullets wound instantly. There’s no need to dodge them. Obviously not in the bucky instance because he doesn’t know it’s a special bullet. Again.. Context
This is how a serious Deadpool fights and owns Daken (when Wade isn’t stupidly monologuing while not even looking at Daken).
https://imgur.com/a/aP1ijTG
How does this shows Deadpool “OWN” Daken? Daken was just standing there letting the bullets hit him without getting harmed at all. They did not even engage in a full battle. Daken was just warning him.
Mr. Mind own scan shows Spider-Man tagging him in the face with webbing and kicking him, plus I have already shown Peter using the environment, an electric generator to ko him.
To be fair Daken was without healing factor dying, and he was taking on X-men, Avengers and F4 by himself
Without HF, he was able to knock down the Thing with a punch
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6358404-punches+the+thing%28ddw+23%29.jpg
Thing and Skaar are non flying bricks, it’s pretty common for low metas and streets to dodge those type of characters. And Thing did eventually manage to grab Daken, although Daken plan was for his pheromones to enraged him.
In this instance, Skaar was throwing truck, motorbike and giant rocks with enormous strength. Consider how strong Skaar is, These objects were coming at Daken with high velocity and Daken dodged them. If that does not show combat speed I don’t know what does.
How about dodging wolverine?
https://imgur.com/2rGW5WU
And has stalemated Cassandra Cain and Batwoman simultaneously as seen below, even though he wasn’t in his right mind.
https://imgur.com/a/tGPk46O
This is a bad showing for Azrael here… this was not stalemating. Your own scan showed Azrael getting knocked out by get this... Cassie and Batwoman...They are mid street to high street levelers… If Azrael cannot cut Batwoman in half, what makes you think he can do it to Daken?
Then you showed Azrael being superior to Red Robin and Bane. Which I already acknowledged in my OP. His special ability prerequisite is that he needs to be able to touch Daken first and that’s effy. Like I said in OP fighting Batfamily and Gotham villains is one thing. Fighting X-Men, Skaar, Meta villains, Avengers etc is another. Daken has joined team battle fighting Marvel Earth’s best. Whether when he was on Dark Avengers or X-men
Fire sword creates enough force to destroy a city.
https://imgur.com/gOm27hw
https://imgur.com/QzGIHBo
https://imgur.com/LeqZP6b
These scans from Batman and Robin Eternal, where did it show a city getting destroyed on panel? Hint: it didn’t
Well now Daken has ton of debris falling upon him from collapse buildings that JPV is blasting apart. And even if that doesn’t ko him, it will most definitely take a toll on him, allowing JPV to just finish him off. Furthermore, Gambit was manhandling Daken pretty good with his staff, skills, and kinetic energy until he was distracted by X-23 being in trouble. JPV will do the same with his sword, skills, and fire blast/force attacks, except he will have no distractions.
https://imgur.com/a/BgjLLPx
So your plan is JPV poke his sword on the floor causing a massive AOE attack collapse… multiple buildings? Lol he is absolutely not capable of doing that, none of the scans you showed suggest even remotely close to that kind of damage. The fact that they are 500 meters apart, that’s at least 2 blocks with many many buildings, in high compact city like new york no less, where Azrael has no idea where Daken went, make this even more impossible
Remember, Gambit’s explosion was not able to KO Daken, but Daken was able to KO Gambit with one hit. Gambit vs Daken was a close range battle. This is 500 meters apart, Azrael needs to be fast enough to close the distance first. I acknowledge Azrael has the advantage of long range weapons. But Daken’s heightened senses of opponent and ability to suppress his own sense. Makes him an assassin
I am not going to detail of how this fight will go play by play because in a hypothetical battle this is pointless. Daken can strike when hiding behind moving trucks or taxi, Daken can strike when hiding from trees to trees, Daken can strike when hiding on the top of the building, 360 degrees. Stealth and Speed ftw
There are still minor parts of your post I didn’t quote because I have addressed all the arguments in either here or OP no need to repeat myself. Daken will not be knocked out here, again you can’t KO someone you can’t hit.
Sorry for the aggressive debating style. I am enjoying this match, it’s been really fun so far. Supermutant is one of the best debater on this site
Final Post
In the fight with Spiderman, Spiderman admits the spider sense is the only thing prevent his head gets cut off. Spiderman is physically superior and much faster and agile than Azrael, and Azrael does not have spider sense.
https://imgur.com/oAVPPcy
Daken likes to play with his prey, that’s why he’s not killing Spidey here, He said he wants to capture Spidey alive for Osborn to play with. notice the claw is retracted. He is just punching him when he can use the claw to slice his head off. But he’s not gonna suffer from CIS in this fight.
https://imgur.com/pxhdh3K
JPV dressed as Batman is easily and quickly able to overcome Scarecrow’s concentrated fear toxin. Scarecrow was astonished that he overcame it so rapidly and exclaimed, “it’s impossible...the amount you took, you should be out for an hour!”
Pheromones is huge advantage in this battle, so far no scan is shown batman’s AI help prevent attacks on nervous system. Scare toxins work completely different from Pheromones. Also scare toxins only works on fear while pheromones work on all your emotions.
Again all it took for JPV to do the same to Red Robin was one touch
This whack out of state tactic will not work. It requires Azrael to touch Daken first with his hand. The moment Azrael’s hand touches Daken, Daken would’ve already pierced through Azrael’s vital organs.
Daken is one tough sob, even without healing factor he can survive huge fall from NYC.
https://imgur.com/YRH1uM1
https://imgur.com/9JNcT8a
Kicking Sabretooth’s ass, let’s see Azrael fighting meta level heroes and villains in DC
https://imgur.com/0r8A5Ah
https://imgur.com/nOtM41F
Dodging Ares attack
https://imgur.com/YupewW2
https://imgur.com/kH7Cvdz
His skill and speed will allow him to strike Azrael when he isn’t looking. That armor is only gonna make Azrael slower...
https://imgur.com/zXV5Li3
https://imgur.com/11EE0yq
When Azrael’s was killing random Gotham thugs, Daken was killing superhuman asgardians, look at that kill count, it’s like a lion ripping apart group of small wolves.
https://imgur.com/LV424GJ
https://imgur.com/9Tw3haM
https://imgur.com/OdY4lDW
With pheromones, he can distract JPV during the fight, just like when he fought cyber
https://imgur.com/a/ZWC7n
An assassin that was raised by Romulus
http://i.imgur.com/kt0C0l5.png
Daken will go in the crowd wearing civilian clothes, he can go anywhere without people noticing. on the other hand JPV is in a armor with flaming sword making him a giant target.
https://imgur.com/sHiwsnt
The way he can jump from one building to another
https://imgur.com/nuDaIcH
Daken has been fighting opponents above Azrael level for quite sometimes. He is not bound to battles with street levelers. (JPV before JLA Odyssey was mainly focus in batman books). There’s level to this shit
Daken’s healing factor has shown able to endure AOE attacks, explosions, heat, energy projection, Stabbing, cutting, shooting.
Daken has speed skill and strength that’s been proven again and again. There’s no need to mention his intelligence. He knows how to use the location to his advantage.
The battle is going to be close combat. Daken does not have long range weapons. But Daken will be the one dictating the fight. He will lure JPV in an area where he can use all the objects there for his advantage.
His claw’s cutting power will make it easy to kill Azrael.
Sorry gotta rush my final post, just suffered a concussion, been fukin dizzy the last couple days. have to rest.
Thanks everyone for reading, thanks Supermutant for opportunity this match
AZRAEL ARMOR VS DAKEN CLAWS
Alright let’s bring this battle to an end by clearing up some mistakes and misconceptions made by Mr. Mind. First let’s look at his “evidence” that Daken’s bone claws will significantly pierce Azrael’s armor.
Originally posted by MrMind
JPV’s armor will not withstand the stab, once it connects he will get pierce through, other than chipped Emma’s diamond form like shown earlier
The claw easily pierced Marcus who was bullet proof
https://imgur.com/w1zSIg1
https://imgur.com/kGwhpFU
In a possible future it pierced through Iron Patriot armor, though didn’t happen, it shows that this is a likely scenario
http://i.imgur.com/CYT9d9J.png
A closer look at the scan shows that its actually Daken’s claws that are chipped on Emma’s hand in diamond form lol. One can even see the two pointed tips of his razor sharp claws that have been chipped away.
The problem with using Marcus Roston is that Daken claws did not damage him at all and barely pierced him there, even after a surprise attack. As seen below in the next page after the scan posted by Mr. Mind, there is not a single drop of blood on Daken claws as Marcus casually and effortlessly tosses him away.
https://imgur.com/L5vjnhB
https://imgur.com/VjqJvPj
The Iron Patriot scan is from a dream sequence caused by the Fates, so it has no value whatsoever in this match.
https://imgur.com/h9xIl7H
https://imgur.com/y2SCnoH
So Mr. Mind’s argument that Daken can pierced JPV’s armor is based on Emma Frost diamond form actually chipping Daken’s claws, Marcus Roston tanking a surprise claw stabbing without damage, and a irrelevant dream of a possible future that didn’t happen. lol I could not have made a better argument against Daken claws not being able to significantly pierce or damage Azrael’s armor myself. The armor has deflected/blocked against edged weapons, blades, swords, knives, etc. His armor will be very resistant against Daken’s claws, especially given the lack of evidence of piercing damage presented. Even if Daken could pierced the armor, he would have to get past all or my ranged attacks, possible drowning, and lost of limbs, body cut in half, and/or decapitation by my sword. I have substantial defense against his only avenue of attack, and I have listed the many ways that JPV can take him down for a forum victory.
JPV’s gauntlets blocks sword from another Azrael. It would certainly not be easy to pierce him, and Mr. Mind has offered very little to support that Daken could significantly injury him.
https://imgur.com/1B8t6G2
More Mistakes From A Beautiful Mind
Originally posted by MrMind
Gets blasted by Moses Magnum and was fine
No he wasn’t fine after that, he would gone on to suffer a humiliating defeat by three humans and Moses. Who even the characters and the narration referred to as d-list villains and losers. They left Daken koed and let him live, and this was after he ambushed them. And remember Judges this is not me bringing up a low showing, this is me responding to my opponent who didn’t show the correct context and ending for a scan. Also this show Daken’s lack of skill, and reinforces the fact that he has been repeatedly koed by blunt force despite his healing factor. I mean after the Moses blast they took him down with basically a regular hammer, a knife, and just normal kicks and punches.
Originally posted by MrMind But keep in mind, Azrael has taken a beating from Nightwing.
https://imgur.com/a/LvqFY8d
No he didn’t. None of Dick’s attack did any damage to JPV. And he was pretty upset as he believed JPV had killed Bruce. Anyway this is how the fight ends when JPV stops holding back, and beats down Nightwing pretty handedly. Dick even states that he couldn’t stop him and can’t even stand up without assistance lol.
Anytime Daken is shown with energy emanating from his claws and his body, like with his battle with the frost giant that version is not in the battle. Death seed Daken or Daken being able to channel those powers are irrelevant and inapplicable to this BZ.
These scans from Batman and Robin Eternal, where did it show a city getting destroyed on panel? Hint: it didn’t
Wrong again it did. “I’m bringing this false city down!” From Batman and Robin Eternal #15 & #16 to be exact. The city was Gnosis secret city of St Dumas. Azrael can produce that level of force from his sword to level a small city.
https://imgur.com/TBICjtv
Daken’s stealth gives him the advantage of being in the Dark while JPV is exposed...He will lure JPV in an area where he can use all the objects there for his advantage.
Lol really, look at the battlefield again, it’s a sunny day. There is no cover of night or darkness for stealth. You must have forgotten but we start in line of sight of each other. JPV has enhanced senses too, and there’s nothing to lured him anywhere. He can see wherever Daken tries to go, where he tries to hide. Moreover he is good at stealth too, just like the other members of the bat-family. Nightwings makes it clear below that JPV has received the same training from Batman as the rest of them, and that he is faster and stronger than the rest of them. Judges absolutely no reason has been given for JPV to follow Daken into a building, especially when he will just blast the whole thing down around Daken’s head.
https://imgur.com/INZcPXF
100% FALLACY of PHEROMONES
Originally posted by MrMind
Daken will use pheromones to alter perception of Azrael leaving him confused with fear losing all the willpower to fight.
Except he already tried during that to Logan, and Wolverine overcame the pheromones by just sheer will and would go on to drown him as previously shown.
https://imgur.com/JG2fdmu
https://imgur.com/WORVz3w
And as seen earlier the System which act as an A.I. built into Azrael suit, will not let him feel fear even from a concentrated double dose of Scarecrow’s toxin. JPV has already been conditioned and programmed by a powerful A.I. so that his perceptions cannot be altered by outside forces.
https://imgur.com/lcMbfbf
https://imgur.com/c1AJqkV
The suit interfaces with his nervous system and tells him where to strike the perfect blow.
https://i.imgur.com/cokqtH8
“He stops thinking, stops being aware. He simply acts.” Azrael Sense is Tingling.
https://imgur.com/ms2IxTK
And recently he now has the Batman AI in hi head which gives him the best attributes of Batman.
https://imgur.com/xHFYub3
https://imgur.com/GGNRKsU
Part 2
So Daken’s pheromones will have to overcome someone with the will of both Bruce and JPV, plus two highly advanced computer programming system in order to fool him somehow. That’s simply isn’t happening. And JPV has been unaffected by a meta that could drain the life force from others in his vicinity, thereby increasing his own strength, speed, and power. This meta name was Calibax and he was even able to put Deathstroke to sleep fairly quickly.
https://imgur.com/YPFMr5m
https://imgur.com/gsoSIyN
https://imgur.com/7lG2Nxy
https://imgur.com/KvJNcF7
JPV would go on to defeat Calibax fairly easily once the System program kicked in. Here, even if the pheromones started to affect Azrael, the System or the Batman AI programming would kick in and protect JPV. Which is similar to how spidey sense protected Peter from the pheromones. Notice in the last scan that JPV didn’t even know what happen as he was not in control during that fight. Daken’s pheromones cannot alter the perceptions of an highly advanced computer program, and there are no emotions to control in that state of mind.
https://imgur.com/a/1RPuX9t
JPV can heal from being submerged in toxic waste. He can take a lot of damage.
https://imgur.com/cC5ogAQ
https://imgur.com/Ooksxmp
Mr.Mind has made a great deal about Daken’s speed, as if JPV was a statute. But I have repeatedly shown that Daken gets hit/tagged quite often by his peers. Those on his level as a low meta or below for instance, Gambit, Bullseye, Hawkeye, Deadpool, and even Punisher has traded blows with him and shot him at close range. This is with regard to speed and not just about who won the fight, although Daken certainly has his share of losses. And Daken perceived speed has more to do with his pheromones messing up his opponent’s perception as mention by Spider-man than outright being faster than someone. But Batman has commented that JPV was “at least two steps faster than me.” We are talking about someone who can catch up to a speeding car on foot.
https://imgur.com/mA5WG5r
https://imgur.com/tHnxWaw
There is no significant speed advantage for Daken here. Daken has even been blitzed before by Marcus. Also shows that he can have his bones broken.
https://imgur.com/PwwIAN7
https://imgur.com/Nc9NGRu
Besides the concrete jungle is JPV’s domain, and he can hear the glass break in a store’s window from a block away.
https://imgur.com/qQ52koF
https://imgur.com/7LcvUVQ
So my initial plan is intact and only strengthen by Mr. Mind trying to play hide and seek.
The battle is going to be close combat. Daken does not have long range weapons...I acknowledge Azrael has the advantage of long range weapons.
Mr.Mind made sure this battle would not be close quarter combat by running into buildings at the first opportunity. I’m simply going to shoot projectiles and blast him to death or near death. And if need be finish him off by cutting off his head. Based on the evidence presented in this BZ my armor is sufficient to protect me from his claws. His pheromones cannot affect by computer programming plus my strong will backed up by Batman’s personality traits. He has to come to me, there is no opportunity for stealth. I’m blasting him and watching him the entire time, b/c we start in line of site of each other.
All that and he beat Batman.
https://imgur.com/a/gYHZJgg
Thanks to Mr. Mind for a fun BZ.
Verdict 1: Darksaint
DarkSaint85 wrote on Mar 7th, 2019 02:07 PM:
So.First of all, Mr Mind is someone who has very pleasantly surprised me with his BZ. It's not often that people go in and swim so well, especially at the deep end where Supermutant plays.
Kudos to both sides, with added kudos on doing it on such short notice.
Azrael is someone who I didn't very well - that stage of comics having passed me by. The use of a composite Azrael, however, really helped Supermutant - it enabled him to cement his position with multiple scans.
Daken was someone I knew a bit better, and Mr Mind did very well in representing him. Enough to tell me that indeed, this would be a close battle.
However, in the end, it was not enough. Supermutant, for me, was the winner here. Speed and strength between the two were a wash, as it often is at this level. The scans of Daken 'chipping' Emma was nicely refuted, as was the trumping of his trump card, the pheromones. The System WOULD protect Azrael, IMO, as he basically becomes possessed when it kicks in. Whilst I remain unconvinced of the power output (I don't think he had a blast that could level a city), Azrael still possessed his gear and his stats.
I agreed with Mr Mind that Azrael's 'possession' touch (which is what I'm calling it) needed to get up close to work...but unfortunately for him, getting up close is precisely what is needed for Daken to win.
Ultimately, I swung around, and in the end, award it to...Supermutant.
Congratulations, guys, on a very well fought battle.
Verdict 2: Victreebel
quote:
victreebelvictr wrote on Mar 11th, 2019 06:21 PM:
Sorry for the lateness. :3
I believe that Mr. Mind is the victor of the arguments, as he countered many of the scans that Mutant brought up with better scans.
Mr. Mind also brought up Daken's speed and powerful claws (that could chip Diamond Emma).
Mutant never brought up any good arguments to support Azreal defeating Daken up close, even with the Flame Sword.
Verdict 3: Bentley
Bentley wrote on Mar 12th, 2019 10:18 PM:
Debating.Supermutant brought many scans in his first post that were largely uncontested but his straight forward plan was dismissed by Mr. Mind, so he essentially dictated the pace of how the battle should go. Even so, I do feel Supermutant did a better job at providing proof of Daken's shortcomings and defending against Mr. Mind's overall plan, at first he was a bit less focused but came out solid in the end. For me Mr. Mind missed the chance of definitively proving Daken's slashing abilities due to his choice of scans.
Supermutant 1 - Mr. Mind 0
Plan.
Supermutant wanted to keep battle in range but he did not provided many means to do so at the starting distance. There is daylight to help him but I do see this sticking to Mr. Mind's strategy better. Supermutant did insist that he could take a slash without dying and ko back with his superior weaponry, I believe he defended that point well, but he should've planed to nullify the possibility of a sneak attack with more care. The idea of destroying buildings to take Daken out, but the scans did not give me the impression this could be practical unless he spotted him at optimal distance.
For me Mr. Mind's more streamlined and straightforward plan was the more effective.
Supermutant 1 - Mr. Mind 1.
Result.
So I went back and forth in the possible scenarios here. Daken needed to get up close and win the battle through a handicapping blow, JPV needed a high damaging hit and had the advantage at mid range. I wasn't led to believe Daken would one-shot JPV's through his armor by the evidence provided. By feats the sword would really mess up Daken. Ultimately I think JPV trying to crush buildings is going to be his falldown: making tons of noise and lifting a lot of dirt it's going to provide a lot of situations for sneak attacks. Daken said he'd wait, so once he realizes flattening buildings it's part of JPV's strategies he'll have all the elements to carry out his plan. It doesn't take an intelligent strategist to take this kind of chance.
While I think Supermutant did an excellent debate I feel his own capabilities will end up working against him. Mr. Mind had one single job and I think that focus gives him the extra he needs to win here.
My vote goes for Mr. Mind
--------------------
Congratulations MrMind you are the winner!
