Naija Boy vs Newjak WBH strength Battlezone
Ok, lets get this show on the road.
World Breaker Hulk as he appeared at the end of HOTM was literally the culmination of Paks fanbyism. He was Hulk portrayed as being exponentially stronger than any of his previous incarnations consistent portrayals/ powerlevels and this was clearly evidenced in his on panel feats. Now note the use of the word consistent as it is extremely significant. All characters have high end feats and low end feats which are lower or higher than their respective norms. Hence there are times that characters will perform astronomically high feats far beyond their station and even miles beyond their tier i.e (Surfer vs Unilord, Hal vs Krona etc ). The silver age is particularly notorious for these kind of outliers. Hulk is no different and in his previous incarnations has some extremely ridiculous outliers even beyond what WBH did such as mindless Hulk doing this:
http://www.mynetimages.com/viewimage/fd94c647a7
Especially notable is that in Hulks case, these feats were performed when Hulk was NOT angrier than ever before and at times even relatively calm. Still, in spite of feats like these, characters have consistent portrayals which define our conception of their power level/tier and in this case strength level. Hence although mindless hulks collision with Ironclad producing enough concussive force to fill countless dimensions is one of the greatest strength feats in comicdom, it is by no means their norm nor is it the level either mindless hulk or Ironclad would operate at within a forum battle since that is not the level they operated at consistently during their comic careers. Even a calm Grey Hulk, has a feat of destroying an asteroid twice the size of Earth (which though not entirely a strength feat should be far above his capabilities) but he is certainly not conceived of as being at that level generally based on the totality of his appearances. Therefore when I refer to World Breaker being 10x stronger, it DOES NOT mean that I am claiming that WBH has a feat more than 10x better than anything any version of Hulk has ever done throughout Hulks entire history . Analogously, Sun dipped superman is accepted as being much much stronger than non-sundipped superman but this does NOT mean he has a feat exponentially greater than anything non-sundipped superman has ever accomplished. Rather it refers to his considerable superiority , to a non-sun dipped superman as he is consistently portrayed. i.e the general superiority of sun dipped superman’s feats, capabilities and portrayal to the feats, capabilities, and portrayal of non-sundipped superman during regular/consistent portrayals. Consequently what is important here, are power levels surmised from the characters non-outlier feats as well as direct performance comparisons against similar opponents/obstacles.
Now the Hulk character is unique in that he has dynamic strength based on anger. Dynamic in Hulks case, refers to his ability to grow stronger with anger. Still, every Hulk save Grey Hulk starts off as a class 100 level character and then goes from there. Further, though dynamic in the aforementioned sense, a thorough reading of the Hulks collection of appearances reveals every Hulk had strength ranges and levels which they were consistently portrayed within during their history. Savage Hulk for instance had dynamic strength but ranged in the vast majority of his battles from Namor (submerged Namor) to Thor level as seen with his regular battles against Thor, Namor, Hyperion, Abomination, Wonderman, Blackbolt, etc. This was his typical and consistent range. Grey Hulk however despite having the exact same powerset (dynamic strength) and hence potential to be just as strong as Savage Hulk, was usually thing level to slightly above thing level and always notably weaker than Savage Hulk and his enemies. This is even noted by Abomination here:
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Hulk%20feats/AbominationacknowledgesGreyHulkisweaker-1.jpg
Merged/Professor Hulk was similar to savage Hulk strength wise save that he started off stronger and amped slower. WWH/Green Scar however was confirmed to be the angriest and therefore strongest incarnation of Hulk seen on panel prior to the World Breaker. The notion that Hulks dynamic strength means that on any given day he could be on any end of the totem pole strength wise and it thus serving as a means to explain away his low feats is absolutely false and out of line with his history. Hulk has always been portrayed as one of Marvels top bricks and his unique power set simply means that while he starts off incredibly strong (Class 100 level for all except Grey Hulk), he can keep getting stronger as the fight goes on. Feats like Hulk getting knocked out by the likes of Captain America and other instances in which he operates below his strength class (i.e below class 100 for Hulks who have that base level) are outlier low feats (which every character has) and should not be rationalized into his power set. Moreover, as seen in the above reference by abomination to Grey Hulk inferiority to Savage Hulk as well as the on panel references to WWH as the strongest Hulk version, an actual reading of the character reveals that it is not difficult to determine the relative strength levels of Hulks different incarnations in comparison to one another as such differences have been explicitly mentioned on panel. These strength levels in comparison to World Breaker Hulk’s are what I will debate here.
Now note that I am not at all suggesting that WBH is at least 10x stronger than savage Hulk would ever be capable of amping. Theoretically, given enough time and incentive, Savage Hulk could certainly amp to even above WBH levels since there is technically no limit to the Hulks potential strength. Any Hulk incarnation with the ability to amp could therefore potentially reach or even surpass WBH levels of strength . Thus in terms of relative strength comparisons between Hulk incarnations, there is a sort of sliding scale since each one has the ability to keep increasing their strength level albeit at different rates. What I am arguing for here is the significant superiority of WBH to any of the previous Hulks within the ranges they most regularly operated at.
The World Breaker incarnation of Hulk is one that is unperturbed by the high feat/low feat quandary faced by most characters because he was shown to operate a consistently high level throughout his limited amount appearances. Additionally it follows that previous low showings of Hulk cannot be used to denigrate this incarnation in any capacity. With that being established, I assert once more that it is abundantly clear from WBH feats that he is character intended to be exponentially stronger than all versions of Hulk before him (remember consistent portrayals and ranges not outlier feats). Now, there has obviously been a bit of overzealousness on the part of some Hulk fans who have suggested he is a skyfather level and what not and being such a polarizing character this has created a backlash of negative sentiment towards the character. Such silly claims are beyond the scope of this debate but I urge the judges to put aside such external influences and look at the argument and on panel evidence based on its individual merit. In doing so I am sure that the validity of my argument regarding the Hulk will be made clear. My claim is that there is a significant gap in strength between the WBH and previous versions. For the sake of clarity however, significant will refer to 10x and upwards. Although without actual writer quantifications, the exact strength gap between WBH and other Hulks incarnations may be difficult to determine; By comparing WBH feats and portrayals in similar situations to those of his previous incarnations, the gulf between them and the elevated level which WBH operates at will become obvious and validate the range of gap (10x) which I have posited within this thread. Ill start with and make extensive use of World War Hulk; known and confirmed on panel to be the strongest version of Hulk up until World Breaker came along. WWH is a Hulk who at base walked around at the upper levels of Savage Hulks typical range (i.e Thor/Sentry level). This was directly attributable to his higher consistent level of anger. Hence demonstrating the gap between WBH and WWH wil itself solidify the gap between WBH and weaker incarnations of Hulk on average/within their typical ranges. Now lets establish that WWH was indeed the strongest incarnation of Hulk .The evidence is nothing short of overwhelming.
Here we have Doc strange flatout stating it: http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/wwhstrongest1.jpg
And here despite Namor having done well and even been comparable to Hulk in the past here he believes fighting against Hulk in this state is futile, further indicating WWH’ superiority:
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Hulk%20feats/NamorbelievesHulkisunstoppableinthisstate.jpg
Here we have shield stating it : http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/wwhstrongest1.jpg
And here we have it reiterated in his Gamma corps file that Hulk is angrier than he has ever been:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/wwhangriest.jpg
Here him being madder and therefore stronger than ever is reiterated again:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/wwhstrongest2.jpg
