"It depends on the version of Doomsday. Death of Superman doomsday would lose. Hunter/Prey Doomsday would win. Doomsday Rex would lose. Gog Wars Doomsday would win"
Bingo.
Last edited by olympian on Oct 4th, 2005 at 05:08 PM
Any version of Doomsday loses. Even Gog Wars Doomsday. Hulk has the ability necessary to beat Doomsday every time.
When Doomsday adapts, he evolves past an opponent. That opponent wouldn't be able to beat Doomsday again.
Hulk's an exception. If Hulk beats Doomsday at a certain level of strength, and Doomsday evolves past that level, Hulk simply needs to get stronger for the next fight. That's not very hard for Hulk to do.
On the bright side for Doomsday, he'll be uber-resistant to physical damage after taking these losses.
I've seen Doomsday's "speed advantage" mentioned here. It's non-existant. Booster Gold said Doomsday was faster than the Flash after Doomsday beat the brakes off of him. I'm not one to nitpick, but that's obviously a mistatement. Doomsday doesn't have any speed feats that overshadow the Hulk's, and he most certainly does not have any feats that surpass the Flash's. Doomsday is quick, but he's no speedster.
Hulk has the trumph card on Doomsday. He can do to him what no other opponent can. He can grow stronger than him, no matter how strong he gets.
1) You may nitpick on BoosterGold all you want, but you have to realize that in the fight against Superman DoomsDay (DD from here on out) was going toe-to-toe against Superman at the same speed Kal-El was at. Now, whether you want to believe DD can match Flash or whether that was just hyperbole from BoosterGold is up to you, but the fact remains that DD matched the speed of the Man of Steel.
In essence he is faster than the Hulk. Far faster than the Hulk. Unless the Hulk recently got an upgrade the makes him able to move faster than 300mph. Far faster than that.
2) Hulk cannot win against DD, no matter how much rage can influence, and enhance, his strength levels. That is basically a non-factor here, and actually the reason why Hulk loses big time.
Why?
Well, the Hulk is basically a one-trick pony. All he has is strength, and thus he is one of the most one-dimensional characters in comic-dom. The Hulk basically has one tool, his strength, and while it may be prodigious at the end of the day it is just that .....only strength.
Now, the Hulk has an additional benefit of being able to get stronger with heightened anger levels, but all that does is .....you guessed it .....give him more strength.
In other words give him more of the same took. I.e he has as ax, and he needs to cut through a mountain. The ax is no sufficient, so he gets a bigger sharper ax. And if that doesn't work he gets a bigger shar .....well, you get the point, to ad infinitum.
That seems like it is perfect against a person like DD, but it is not. It is not a matter of how strong Hulk is, but that he is using the same exact tool. Strength.
His lack of diversity is his main impediment.
An analogy:
One of the biggest health-threats today (apart from the 'normal' end-game scenarios like a virulent flu-pandemic and the like) is the risk posed by super-resistant bacterial strains. These bacteria have developed immunity levels towards modern anti-biotics, some to such a level that they are basically impregnable. And then there are several which have developed such a high resistance that they are COMPLETELY protected against ALL of the 160 anti-biotic drugs present today. One example is a bacteria called VRE, which can cause septic infection of the blood. There are mutated strains of VRE, that if it gets inside a person there is nothing modern medicine can do for you. The thing is totally impregnable to every antibiotic known.
How the resistance happens is that the bacteria are either exposed to antibiotics (normally in small doses) and just simply mutate down the generations to the point where what could kill them before is totally useless now (kind of like DD, which makes me think that DC might have based him on bacteria, believe it or not).
And the problem with these bacteria is that if they were ever to establish themselves in the general populace they would be the greatest health risk ever faced by the planet (more so than the super-virulent flu i mentioned above). The thing is before the advent of penicillin in 1940 the greatest cause of death in humans was bacterial infection. Eg, you cut yourself with a knife and the wound gets infected. Because there were no anti-biotics before 1940 that infection could lead to septimacea (blood poisoning), and you would be dead in days. From a simple cut that nowadays only requires a trip to the medicine cabinet.
What doctors fear the most is super-resistant bacteria out there, which do not respond at all to drugs. Basically going back to how things were before 1940 (and penicillin), whereby if a person got wounded in any way they ran a very real risk of dying (it would make a scraped knee something to be careful about).
The only way to kill such bacteria is with heat ...eg using an autoclave. Using anti-biotics on them would only make them stronger.
Oh, and as for heat there are bacterial strains that live in volcanic regions; some near magma pits and others in hot springs, where they use the heat (far above water's boiling point, and with steam enough to slough a human's skin off) and sulphur (poisonous enough to kill a person in less than a minute) to produce energy. These bacteria don't cause disease though, but you can see how they evolved whereby even heat and poisonous environs have no effect on them (and even make them stronger).
Conclusion: The Hulk is an anti-biotic, and a very effective one at that. In fact it is an anti-biotic that can be made more potent if need be, thus it can go from 'a strong anti-biotic' to 'an extremely strong anti-biotic.' Just like the Hulk and his strength.
However it is still an anti-biotic. It is still a single-tool.
And it is going against something that is impregnable to that tool.
The Hulk is strong.
When angry he gets stronger.
However he is fighting a being that has evolved beyond strength.
Hunter/Prey DD would kill the Hulk, and do it with abundant ease.
Gog DD would kill the Hulk, and do it so quickly that he would probably not even notice the Hulk was there.
DOSuperman DD would kill the Hulk, but not as fast as the other two (actually nowhere near as fast .....this version would actually have to FIGHT the Hulk to garner a win. The other versions wouldn't fight the Hulk .....they would simply kill him).
The Hulk is super-strong, but at the end of the day he is a one-trick pony going against something that evolves beyond single tricks. And DD has been beaten by strength before.
I honestly do not even think DD would consider the Hulk a threat in the first place. He might just decide to walk past the Hulk, and if the Hulk was smart he would simply hang his head with shame and let DD walk by.
Superman wasn't going at full speed during the DOS fight. He almost never does. To suggest that everyone Superman fights has the same level of superspeed that he is, or even close to the same level, is ludicrous. Solomon Grundy has given Superman many a good fight in past comics. You think he's as fast as Supes?
Doomsday is not totally immune to physical attacks. If he faces someone who's physically stronger than the last person wo defeated him with physical strength, he'll be beaten, like he was in DOS (unless you mean to imply that before DOS, Doomsday was never defeated by physical strength.) Doomsday evolves to become more powerful than his opponent. Not totally immune to the form of attack that defeated him.
Hulk is easily as durable as Doomsday, if not moreso, and his durability also increases with his anger. Hulk is the king of brute strength, and Doomsday's only tools are strength, and his ability to adapt to overcome an opponent. When going against Savage Hulk with strength alone, the best one can hope for is a stalemate. Hulk has the ability to overcome Doomsday's adaptive powers.
Doomsday isn't totally immune to physical attack. He evolves past opponents, not a certain type of attack. Considering that Doomsday will keep coming back, Hulk would trounce him time, and time again.
" Hulk cannot win against DD, no matter how much rage can influence, and enhance, his strength levels. That is basically a non-factor here, and actually the reason why Hulk loses big time."
So if he gets stronger than Byrne Superman for example, he cant?
Byrne Superman btw. The weakest ever.
"Why?
Well, the Hulk is basically a one-trick pony. All he has is strength, and thus he is one of the most one-dimensional characters in comic-dom."
And Doomsday usually had.....what?
"The Hulk basically has one tool, his strength, and while it may be prodigious at the end of the day it is just that .....only strength. "
And Doomsday?
"That seems like it is perfect against a person like DD, but it is not. It is not a matter of how strong Hulk is, but that he is using the same exact tool. Strength.
His lack of diversity is his main impediment."
What great versability did DOS Doomsday showed for example.
"You may nitpick on BoosterGold all you want, but you have to realize that in the fight against Superman DoomsDay (DD from here on out) was going toe-to-toe against Superman at the same speed Kal-El was at. "
Wich wasent anywhere close to "full speeds".
And i do nitpick by the fact it was proved wrong by the whole storyline itself.
Getting past the purely physical. Doomsday can also disrupt Hulks gamma energy.
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Flash is able to reach incredible speeds that defy physics...so to imply that Doomsday can do the same is to assume he speed force powers that allow him to travel faster than light in earth's atmosphere, without creating the friction that would ignite the atmosphere. Neither Superman or Doomsday move that fast.
Hulk is one of the fastest people on Earth, he's reached the Earth's orbit with the power of his leg muscles, he's caught ICB-Missiles, he's caught Jack of Hearts when he was trying to leave the surface, He's caught space craft attempting to leave the orbit, he's caught fighter jets...His speed is highly under rated on this forum.
Doomsday is fast as hell...probably as fast as Hulk considering he has leapt almost as impressively.
Doomsday can also hurt Hulk...he's torn right through Superman and the other tough guys of Marvel.
Hulk's durability is under rated on this forum as well. I'd watch out for what Peter David has the Hulk doing the rest of the time he's writing him....he tends to get pretty extreme. Professor Hulk was a beast when David was doing Hulk. He's already had Hulk trash Fing-Fang-Foom and made it so Hulk doesnt rely on Oxygen anymore. Maybe he's going to make Savage Hulk a modern version of what he was in the 70's.
Doomsday and Hulk are an even match IMO. The problem DD would have with Hulk, the same thing that separates Hulk from Superman, is that he has reached level of truly infinite strength i.e. when he not only resisted the anti-matter matter attraction, but launched the AM object out into space where it became a star. If DD was recently killed by Superman, in a fight that didnt even level metroplis...He would be in trouble against the Hulk in a fight to the death.
I in no way believe DD is faster than Flash...although it would be funny as hell if we saw him chasing Flash with speedforce.
__________________
Humans are afraid of the dark.
And yet… At the same time, we’re fascinated and bewitched by it.
Maybe that’s why humans drink the darkness that is coffee.
As it is likely that every form of Doomsday has already been beaten once by physical force, I think it is safe to say that Doomsday (or any version thereof) wins vs The Hulk.
I don't think so. Doomsday did that to Radiant because he's made out of energy. Unless he develops energy manipulating powers as a result of fighting Hulk, I don't think Doomsday will be getting involved with Hulk's gamma energy.
It is to my understanding that Doomsday evolves past an opponent, not a means of attack. If Doomsday evolves to defeat one foe, that doesn't mean he wouldn't be defeated by another foe who attcks him in the same manner. Heck, Radiant killed Doomsday with energy attacks. Later on, Imperiex did the same. Doomsday had been killed by physical strength many times before he faced Superman in DOS. He had just never faced someone as strong as Superman.
I don't see where the logic of the "Doomsday is immune to all physical attacks because Superman beat him with physical attacks" argument holds.
True, but he had never faced off against Waverider and he distorted his energy as well, which included Chronal energy.
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I doubt he would beat DD Gog Wars or Hunter Prey. He never met Waverider yet he still managed to beat him. Also he never met Gog who has the powers of the entire Quintessence. He never encountered their powers. Yet he still managed to beat them. I think he doesn't just mutate beyond one thing but also develops new enhancements as well. He ain't just like you think.
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He also healed instantly from wounds as well in hunter/prey, something he wasn't doing in DOS.
__________________
Humans are afraid of the dark.
And yet… At the same time, we’re fascinated and bewitched by it.
Maybe that’s why humans drink the darkness that is coffee.
Back than Flash (Allen) wasn't that fast, him and Supes was just faster than sound speed. Doomsday was faster than Flash back than, but not now, since Flash is faster than light and has the speed force. Doomsday wins IMO though, he's faster and just as stronger (depending on which version you use).
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Oct 4th, 2005 05:04 PM
