Mike, you want to know your problem, you bring real world sh** into a comic. Show me out of all the time Superman or any other character flying through space, show me them dodgin meteors.
Its a COMIC and a lot of space flight circles around PLOT.
I'll be waiting on those combat speed feats instead of real world logic.
Its pretty obvious that Goku is faster and is much better at combat speed than Supes or any other high herald you know. Hell, Goku combat wise during his teenage years is leagues above Supes.
Again, stop using real world logic in a comic bc it makes you look crazy. I am pretty sure that when those writers are writing Superman flying through space, the last thing they are thinking of is how many times the speed of light Superman is flying.
I am pretty sure when they had Rogue, Vulcan, Despero, Super Skrull, Thor, Beta Ray Bill, Ms. Marvel, Wonderman, Hyperion, Magneto, Phoenix (Jean Grey), they were not thinking that they could fight at light speed. Hell, there are thousands of character that have that lame a** space flight under there belts but has yet to show that they can react at the speed of light.
Its a comic Mike, everything about comics is plot and doesnt have anything to do with real life events unless you truly believe that someone with Hulk strength can wave his arm around in a city without causing major destruction.
Hulk scream alone should shatter a city apart due to his build and strength. Hell, his footsteps should cause minor earth quakes.
It depends. If we are talking about space flight, then no, I dont agree since most of the time, space flight involves plot and again, everyone has it and 96% of them has as of yet to show that they have enough speed to even stop a bullet from hitting them.
Its pointless to debate against you anyway Mike, you are basically saying that Despero, a Hulk like character, and Vulcan, someone that got blitzed by Wolverine is faster than Goku.
WWWWWWOOOOOOWWWWW..... they have shown NOTHING to even make me think they can hang with Goku as a baby and yet you are claiming that since they flew in space, that automatically give them the speed edge over Goku when they have as of yet to perform any kind of blitz or show a sign of super speed.
What carver9 is trying to say is that since space travel is greatly inconsistent with the average showings in combat it shouldn't be treated as if it were the same.
Not to mention it's frequently contradicted, in DC you can't exceed the speed of light without entering the Speed-force.
Besides, why would Flash's Infinite-Mass Punch be so devastating if Superman threw them at a regular basis?
The only thing Mike really have to clarify if a character can fight at light speed is space flight which is just plain out stupid to use (not calling you stupid Mike because I can tell that you have a lot of book sense). Space flight is a plot device speed; it happens because it is meant for that character to be in that area at that time, its not meant to show that 'this' character can combat at light speed.
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Last edited by carver9 on May 7th, 2010 at 06:44 PM
This one scene alone make me realize how fast Goku really is.
Fast forward this to 8 minutes and 8 seconds and look at his hand speed. With each wave of his hands a blast come out and I'm seeing NUMEROUS of blast within a second.
This scene alone is some flash type speed, hell, it could probably be better.
That's only true for speedforce users, and even they can overcome that if they have a strong emotional bond with someone to bring them back.
[quote[Besides, why would Flash's Infinite-Mass Punch be so devastating if Superman threw them at a regular basis? [/QUOTE]
Because Flash throws them at much closer to lightspeed than Supes does?
To carver:
The anime is non - canon, and all you're doing is posting stuff based on art style without attempting to use quantification at all. Superman has feats that are clocked many times the speed of light, Goku, or any other DBZ character for that matter, doesn't even have any showings that put them at even 1% of lightspeed. Trying to say that all feats that take place in space don't count is just retarded, the reason so many great speed feats are in space is because it's easier to confirm them there, after all the distances they have to cross are much longer.
Say we have a character who goes from one city to another in a few seconds. Is that lightspeed or not? No way of telling. The distances are too close.
Say we have a character going from earth to the sun in a few seconds. Is that faster than light? Damn right it is, as light takes 8 minutes to reach earth from the sun. Superman and many other characters often don't use their most extreme speed on earth because it would damage the planet.
Still, considering you have not only refused to come up with any calcs for your side, but also denied the most basic forms of logic and common sense by saying that speed cannot be determined by dividing distance by time, you've basically conceded already. You base speed on nothing more than the art style, whether it "looks fast" or not. You don't attempt to actually analyze it at all.
No. It's pretty much established that the only way to surpass the speed of light in DC is by entering the Speed Force.
Yet you claim that Superman punches faster than light, or at least that's what you're implying by bringing up his interstellar travel when arguing his combat speed.
About that. You're completely missing his argument (on purpose?) which is as apparent as it could be. What he means is basically, combat speed and travel speed aren't interchangeable. Which would be obvious to any physicists as well, considering the fact that long distance travel gives you an interval of acceleration.
So every random spaceship that crosses interstellar distances enters the speedforce?
Funny, I don't remember that ever happening.
Hell, it was downright stated that Superman could go into hyperspace (not the speedforce). Swamp Thing traveled in astral form all the time without the speedforce being mentioned at all.
You more than anyone else here should know that relativistic KE doesn't work if you're faster than light. It was even stated one time that he was going close to light but not above it because then he would get the impact boost from relativity.
I'm sorry, is your name carver?
You seem to be the one misinterpreting his argument. He's issuing a blanket proclamation that feats in space don't count, as anyone at all can move lightspeed in space, even if they have no powers. Since you're "the physics guy" you should realize how wrong that is.
Because Flash throws them at much closer to lightspeed than Supes does?
To carver:
The anime is non - canon, and all you're doing is posting stuff based on art style without attempting to use quantification at all. Superman has feats that are clocked many times the speed of light, Goku, or any other DBZ character for that matter, doesn't even have any showings that put them at even 1% of lightspeed. Trying to say that all feats that take place in space don't count is just retarded, the reason so many great speed feats are in space is because it's easier to confirm them there, after all the distances they have to cross are much longer.
Say we have a character who goes from one city to another in a few seconds. Is that lightspeed or not? No way of telling. The distances are too close.
Say we have a character going from earth to the sun in a few seconds. Is that faster than light? Damn right it is, as light takes 8 minutes to reach earth from the sun. Superman and many other characters often don't use their most extreme speed on earth because it would damage the planet.
Still, considering you have not only refused to come up with any calcs for your side, but also denied the most basic forms of logic and common sense by saying that speed cannot be determined by dividing distance by time, you've basically conceded already. You base speed on nothing more than the art style, whether it "looks fast" or not. You don't attempt to actually analyze it at all. [/B][/QUOTE]
So with this statement you are admitting that Despero and Vulcan is faster than Goku since they both have space flight achieving over light speed?
If you answer is yes, I will be waiting on those speed feats.
Everyone on the comic book forum already stated that you were crazy for even THINKING that Vulcan can combat at light speed because of space flight.
By the way, astner had it on point, that is EXACTLY what I am trying to say.
What about when base goku from namek saga escaped frieza's energy ball before it exploded. That attack was like a nuke and nukes explode at one billionth of a second while the speed of light travels at one millionth of a second. So goku gotta be faster than light to escape that blast. Note: he was several kilometers away from the blast as well.
He was already inside the source of the explosion, so he couldn't have dodged it, really all he had to do was outrun the detonation velocity, which is unknown. Although if we compare it to real life explosions, the maximum would be around 10km/s. That's fast, but nowhere near lightspeed. And what the hell do you mean "light travels at one millionth of a second?" That's a completely meaningless statement unless you say how far. You're simply making things up.
Furthermore, comparing it to a nuclear explosion is fallacious, although since it might be comparable in scale and power, the mechanism is completely different. You're talking about nuclear fusion, which happens by causing a chain reaction in atoms, but there were no fusing atoms in that incident, just a sphere of ki, which has unknown properties. In addition, atoms don't fuse faster than the speed of light, as nothing real life moves faster than light. Finally, if I was trying to outrun a nuclear detonation, I wouldn't have to clear the entire blast radius before the atoms even started to fuse, I would merely have to keep ahead of the shockwave before it reached me. Like I said, that would be pretty fast, like mach 29, but still nowhere close to lightspeed.
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Last edited by Endless Mike on May 13th, 2010 at 02:54 PM
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