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Marka Ragnos vs. NJO Luke Skywalker
You do not have permission to vote on this poll. |
| Marka Ragnos wins by far |
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8 |
24.24% |
| Marka Ragnos barely wins |
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4 |
12.12% |
| NJO Luke Skywalker wins by far |
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12 |
36.36% |
| NJO Luke Skywalker barely wins |
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9 |
27.27% |
| Total: |
33 votes |
100% |
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Janus Marius
Plo Koon Rulez!
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
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You forgot to mention his apprentice threw stars (Note plural) for fun.
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May 13th, 2005 07:05 AM |
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Emperor Revan
Most Powerful Sith Lord
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: The Star Forge
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Yes, yes, yes, his apprentice threw stars some people said. Now where did they get that information? From a Lucas site? Now its probably true, but your whole argument had 2 things to back it up. Wow. Lets see, reasons why they wouldn't have challenged him: 1. The Sith didn't fight back then because Marka didn't want it so none of them had really any combat experience. 2. Had Naga killed him on his death bed, all the other Sith would've rebelled against him and killed him. Why not wait? 3. Naga was very cowardly, and preferred to trick people's minds.
Now lets look at all of the things that Marka did. He..., oh yeah his apprentice probably threw stars at people. Now, that may have been a rare power like battle meditation or something, but who really needed to throw a star after him? Not many. So every Force power Naga uses is on a planet scale type ratio, like Bastila's battle meditation that probably can't be used in a single fight (unless he really wants a stalemate.) And who did Naga defeat in lightsaber combat? Not even Kressh.
But let's get back on subject to the guy who did even less things then Naga. Marka never used Force powers, never fought in combat, and never killed anyone (to my knowledge) so yes he was probably powerful and I'm not denying it but there's hardly proof that he was as powerful as NJO Luke.
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May 13th, 2005 12:50 PM |
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Fishy
Senior Member
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: The Netherlands
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Your thinking of it the wrong way...
Naga never challanged Marka, okay when Marka was dying kill him wouldn't be a real statement, but before that he didn't challange him either. Naga Sadow never made a move against somebody when his force powers were incredible, and no he did not defeat Kressh because Marka Ragnos came between them and told them to stop.
The two would have fought to death if it wasn't for Ragnos coming along, meaning that even in his dead he was still seen as a powerful and respected ruler. Even then Naga Sadow did not challange him, he let himself be ruled by a dead half blood Sith Lord. Seriously why would he do that unless he really feared Ragnos.
Perhaps we don't know anything about who Ragnos fought at least i don't, but the evidence speaks for itself. If somebody that is as powerful as Naga Sadow won't stand up against Marka Ragnos then surely Naga Sadow is powerful, also lets not forget what Kreia said about those Sith Lords. They make Exar Kun and Revan look like children, children. Now this may be overboard but you can at least assume Kreia has a ring of truth in what she says. And Revan alone could make it hard for NJO Luke if not kill him.
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May 13th, 2005 01:08 PM |
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Janus Marius
Plo Koon Rulez!
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
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Again, Revan33.... You must research to counter argue.... Lightsabers were not available in the times of either of those Sith lords.
And you keep citing lack of knowledge on your part as reasons why these Sith can't win. I must ask... You can not see oxygen, but you know it is there, right? You have not met the Dalai Lama, but you know he lives in Tibet? You haven't actually measured the height of Mount Everrest, but you know it's the highest? Yes?
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May 13th, 2005 03:14 PM |
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Emperor Revan
Most Powerful Sith Lord
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: The Star Forge
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Yes, but you're saying things have been proven many times by different people. There is no proof of Marka Ragnos' all powerful abilities. Don't get me wrong, I do think he's powerful but because he has no accomplishments I don't put him as high as NJO Luke.
I am simply a person that judges a person’s power on their accomplishments and by actually watching the story unfold like the movies or games instead of hearing someone say something about someone they didn’t even know etc. I will also believe it if a credible person tells a story and they were actually there. I don’t like to think someone’s powerful because no one killed him on his death bed and everyone hated him and they could chuck stars (which I still haven’t seen on anything official.)
I’m not at all saying that your guy’s opinions are wrong, just that I look at it from a different perspective, more of a concrete proof type of thing.
__________________
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May 14th, 2005 03:51 PM |
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Fishy
Senior Member
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: The Netherlands
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NJO Luke isn't supported by GL either doesn't make it less true...
And apparently Ragnos made people fight against him to prevent them from expanding. He actually made himself hated by the Sith so that they would not attack the Republic which he feared, probably without reason but still... Meaning that even though he was a half blood and hated by that, even though he had a guy that hated him that could throw stars, even though a lot Sith wanted to see him dead, all of that doesn't matter he stilled ruled for more then a century.
Now there are no official records about Scipius Africanus taking Cordoba, but the city was taken by Romans and he was in the neighbourhood and he did fight Carthaginians, and he was a brilliant General and he was the only one with power enough to take the city.
The only reports of him taking the city are from a few diaries. Same situation as Marka Ragnos no we don't know if he took the city for sure, we don't know if his forces faced impossible odds and prevailed. We just know somehow the city was conquered and he was the only able to do it. Just like we know nobody successfully challenged Ragnos and he ruled until he died peacefully.
It implies that he was all powerful in that time and could not be matched, does that mean he was all powerful? No we are not sure but everything just seems to shout out YES HE WAS!!!
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May 14th, 2005 05:14 PM |
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Emperor Revan
Most Powerful Sith Lord
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: The Star Forge
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Like I said, I judge power differently than others. I still think Marka would lose, but you can't change my mind just as I can't change yours.
__________________
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May 14th, 2005 07:19 PM |
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Fishy
Senior Member
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: The Netherlands
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I don't know if he would lose or not, I don't think you can honestly tell.
__________________
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May 14th, 2005 07:26 PM |
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Emperor Revan
Most Powerful Sith Lord
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: The Star Forge
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True.
__________________
Thanks to Janus for the great Sig.
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May 14th, 2005 08:40 PM |
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DarkNemesis
Uber Dark Lord
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: The Dark Side of the Force
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Well, these guys lived like thousands of years apart, it is almost impossible to tell who will win. Both Ragnos and Luke have awesome powers and indeed both have accomplishments that support them winning this fight. All I can say is that we are looking at a sweet fight here.
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May 14th, 2005 10:16 PM |
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Fishy
Senior Member
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: The Netherlands
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I wouldn't want to be around when this fight starts, thats for sure...
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May 15th, 2005 06:48 AM |
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Emperor Revan
Most Powerful Sith Lord
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: The Star Forge
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When I was reading about Naga Sadow on the official timeline, it says that Naga caused the stars to go supernova (or detonated them) but he never threw stars. So I have to question the truth of the matter since I haven't found any other official source to contradict it.
__________________
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May 15th, 2005 02:05 PM |
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Darth_Glentract
The Truest Sith Lord
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Korriban
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The way he made the stars go supernova was by ripping out the cores and throwing them at enemies. This made the star go boom!
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May 15th, 2005 02:14 PM |
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Fishy
Senior Member
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: The Netherlands
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So he threw the core and the hottest part of the star... Actually making it more powerful, not necessarily more impressive but more powerful
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May 15th, 2005 05:03 PM |
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Darth Abominus
Senior Member
Registered: May 2005
Location: earth
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marka ragnos by FAR. how so? well according to star wars revised core rule book and the dark side source book, both from lucas.
luke's abilities in NJO:
affect mind: 11
battelmind: 8
empathy: 10
enhance ability: 10
enhance senses: 6
farseeing: 9
force defense: 6
heal self: 6
move object: 10
see force: 10
telepathy: 7
force feats: alter, attuned, control, force mastery, knight defense, lightsaber defense, sense.
feats: acrobatic, combat reflexes, exotic weapon proficiency lightsaber, force sensitive, weapon focus light saber.
now for marka ragnos
force skills:
affect mind: 8
alchemy 22
battlemind 17
control mind 19
enhance ability 19
force defense 18!! even stronger than yoda's force defence!
move object 10
see force 12
telepathy 9
force feats:
alter, control, drain force, force lightning, force mastery, force mind, rage, sense, sith sorcery, sith sword defense, sith sword expertise, sith sword mastery.
feats:
armor proficiency, light and medium. exotic weapon proficiency sith sword, exotic weapon proficiency sith lanvarok, force sensitive, great fortitude, power attack, weapon focus sith sword.
not to mention marka's sword being able to reflect blaster bolts an light sabers no doubt.
marka also being physically stronger, hell sidious would be terrified of him.
i'm also sure that you all know, that marka lived in a time where sith treachery, deceit, guile, subterfuge, lying and betrayal was at its highest. only the strong lived and the weak died and no one even dared to touch marka while he was on his death bed. many sith displeased with his lack of expansion but he was a dangerous type of killer waiting for the right moment to strike its enemy. just like a sniper.
luke is great don't get me wrong, but again'st ragnos he's just a boy.
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Jun 1st, 2005 02:15 AM |
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Jedi_Knight22
May the Force be With You
Registered: May 2005
Location: Olympia, WA United States
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I agree with many of you on the many different aspects of each others character's ability, especially about not being around for such a large and most likely destructive fight, think they could petition for HBO boxing like events back in those days? LOL. Anyways the stats from the card game are a nice addition, but they fail to weigh in certain aspects such as a heart or a sort of will to win in my worthless opinion. Over time Luke has been able to survive many deadly battles and find a way through the Force, I guess I could say, to survive sometimes against all odds even when extremely close to dying, several times. Since they were also so far apart in time it is hard to comprehend how each one would fare in each others timely environment. Now since no one really challenged Ragnos effectively, it would be interesting to see how he reacted to an able opponent. Yet I believe Luke would take this fight, at first I thought by far but then realized i was pretty naive and came to a better of conclusion of him barely beating Marka. Just my worthless .02 cents, and by my post count I'm sure many will disagree with me. Meh oh well, one hell of a fight, thats for sure.
Chad
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Jun 1st, 2005 02:53 AM |
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Darth Abominus
Senior Member
Registered: May 2005
Location: earth
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chad you have some good points
but i'm sure ragnos had to survive many ordeals, perhaps more so than luke. he wasn't born into power and he had to take it!
as far as ages apart from each other, i don't think it would be a case here, since they're both relying on the force. if it was a battle of technology, then luke no question.
naga sadow no doubt is a very formidable an fearsome opponent, but look he was just scared of marka. and i think naga vs luke would be a fearsome battle alone.
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Jun 1st, 2005 03:05 AM |
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Lord Darkstar
Grandmaster of the AFC
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: The Dark Tower
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Emperor Revan, I noticed that you said that the sith at that time never fought, actually they fought over everything. The apprentice was always challenging the master if the apprentice thought they had even a tiny chance of victory. Yet nobody challenged Marka. And Marka made himself even more hated, making the sith focus their attacks on him so that the sith empire did not crash. So he either survived hundreds of attacks, or nobody wanted to challenge him
I also noticed that you said that if Naga killed him on his deathbed Naga would be hated, actually no he wouldn't halfbloods like Marka here hated, they wanted to kill them all the time. Yet they allowed him to live and rule them. It would be like a jew ruling germany during world war two, back then nobody in germany would have cared how the person died, just kill him. Double team, poison, bombs etc. Yet either those failed on Marka, or nobody wanted to try them for fear of his wrath.
Don't get me wrong, it would be an awesome fight, but Luke would barely loose.
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Jun 1st, 2005 03:07 AM |
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Darth L. Dipsit
Pimp of Good
Registered: May 2005
Location: A galaxy far, far away....
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This is a fight between the most powerful Jedi and the most powerful Sith, in my opinion. It is what I believe is the ULTIMATE one-on-one fight. Let's just agree that, despite the fact that Ragnos seems much more intimidating and seems to have powers on a greater level according to some of the information we have, that this fight is just too controversial to call, one way or the other.
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Jun 1st, 2005 03:39 AM |
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Darth Abominus
Senior Member
Registered: May 2005
Location: earth
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yub, agreed darth dipsit.
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Jun 1st, 2005 03:48 AM |
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