Oh, and I assume teddy bears than can take down AT-ST's aren't "real" in a Star Wars sense either. This isn't Earth's Dark Jedi, it's a ****ing galaxy! Read the first six words of every movie.
And I assume you lost your balls and intellectual capacity at a young age aswell then did you? Why do you think that Star Wars became so significant if science-fiction? Because the main villain wasn't a big polysterene box with some LED light's on the front.
May I point out that a number of film credits come before the rolling prologue; So Lucasfilm, THX etc. may give some grounding that this is a Movie, therefore has to acquire some realistic concepts inorder to keep the audience from having epileptic fits!
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Jedi Academy on Yavin IV
And who are you to judge as to "what is and isn't Star Wars?" Did Lucas tell you that you got to make decisions like this, and that if you said something "wasn't Star Wars," that it wasn't?
Also, keep in mind that everyone in this topic disagrees with you, save for one person who says it would be a tie. It's quite clear that you're not exactly sure about what you're talking about, so you should probably quit while you're ahead.
Oh, and your saying a game is crap (which is an opinion) should have no weight on the characters/what they accomplished and is considered EU.
That's like saying that if you don't like the X-Wing books that Wedge never actually took over Rogue Squadron, and they never took Courscant/Imperial City from the Empire, and they never took out the Iron Fist...
Your logic is generally poor, your arguements are poor, and no one agrees with your poor excuses for points. Why don't you stop trying to make them?
I dont have points. I have opinions. You dont seem to understand that. It is a forum. Quit while I'm ahead you say? No. I'm not ahead. But if I was...
"Right, quitting while I'm AHEAD, going to bed now, it's late, America's supposed to be invaded the UK tomorrow" and bugger off into the night.
And still, you do not understand what I am saying because of your own personal predjudices and idiocy. And btw, I am a fan to judge what I think fits with the Star Wars universe. Weird bipedal Dark Jedi clinging to Troll like Dark Jedi isnt Star Wars, much like the Vong.
And I am fully aware that everybody disagress with me, but this does not discontent me, if only the opposite. It is quite clear you do not understand what you are supposed to be talking about. And beg your pardon, but going by a game that was made when they had the narrative quality of pungent turd against the aspects of a film is slightly absurd. Don't get me wrong, again, if you were merely saying that this is JO/JA Kyle and he has not killed a bunch of villians from the first games, then I would give you credibility, but as you dont understand that I will not.
btw, ive said it many times before. im seriously gonna go to bed thinking im gonna have some conservative army dude waiting outside my house waving the star spangled banner
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: The Dark Side of the Force
No, no, no, I said the game in general is considered cannon , in other words, the main plot was real, and the main villains (ie Jerec and Desann) were people that Katarn actually defeated. Indeed, the gameplay was exaggerated, but the storyline still stands
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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: The Dark Side of the Force
You can ignore those since they were probably very insignificant Jedi, but defeating Jerec or Desann isn't something a normal Jedi could do, I'm sure. Desann has power from the Valley of the Jedi, and Luke in JO even warned Kyle not to take Desann alone. And this is Luke a good ten years or so after ROTJ. That's gotta give Desann some credit.
__________________
"Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof." (Thanks TRiNiTYfemi for the sig!)
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Jedi Academy on Yavin IV
Not to mention that Bok, Sariss, and Yun don't seem to go into your "not Star Wars" category, whatever determines that.
Besides, there are a LOT of species' in Star Wars, many of whom haven't even been given names, like the Wolfman in the original ANH, or various creatures seen in the background in a cantina. Who's to say that Maw, Gorc, and Pic couldn't be among those weird species?
The reason why Star Wars stands above Star Trek and Babylon 5 etc.
Desaan is a powerful Jedi, as is Jerec, and I do give Katarn credit for this, however Kyle as had a lot of power from the Valley Of The Jedi, and I still believe that Obi-Wan would win this, because of his experience and lightsaber duelling ability, in which he beats Katarn in.
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Jedi Academy on Yavin IV
Kyle's "power" from the Valley of the Jedi was lesso actual, raw power and moreso re-establishing his connection with the Force that he gained in the previous game, bringing him back up to his very core basic potential. And, in the game, it was just that - a very basic connection, and he could only use the very basic abilities. He had to work to re-establish his connection to the Force to become as strong, if not stronger, than he was when he fought Jerec.
A lot of people seem to underestimate Desann here, he is one hell of a fighter. Luke was not able to defeate him, and I belive that Luke was actually aiming for the kill, not much, near nothing, points to that Luke wanted to convert him back to the light side. He said himself that neither of them should face him in combat now that he had been to the valley of the jedi and was stronger than ever.
Luke had seen him kill masters and he was responsible of many, many deaths in the galaxy.
During their fight (which is canon) Luke seemd to have a lot of trouble, he was falling several times and barley got up each time, even if he wasent attacking (which I think I can see he does) he had a hard time deflecting.
Even though it doesent mean much, Desann was laughing through the whole duel and smiled when Luke fell under the boulders, not showing a sign of fautige or relife.
Kyle defeated this guy fair and square (not really since Kyle had been fighting for a hell long time without much rest) with only a few days of traning after regaining his force connection.
Kyle has shown a pretty tough defence against force powers and saber strikes, I belive he would take down AOTC Obi-Wan.
Did Desann know any sort of cloaking ability cause when Kyle asked Luke why he attacked him alone when they had agreed they would not try it alone, Luke answered that he couldent even sens him coming.
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You really cant take into consideration the way Kyle fights and how he blocks etc.
He did beat Desaan however. Yet we cannot merely assume that Luke intended to kill; the conventions of the game would not allow Luke to try and turn Desaan. Desaan is the villain and Kyle is the hero, you can't have Luke converting Desaan back into the light there'd be know villain...
I was more pointing at that because he defeated Desann, he must have had a pretty formidable defence or offense.
You can't really argue that way. Luke is the main hero in the OT, you couldent have him convert Darth Vader to the light side in ESB, that would ruin the movie. Still that doesent mean that Luke could beat him. You can't say that the game did or didn't want him to turn him, then you could say that in every battle in Star Wars and we wouldent know a shit about who was greater
Desann was probably greater than Luke was in JK:JA considering all Luke said about Desann proving that Luke did not want to fight him alone. He knew what Desann was about to do, I don't think he would be giving him a chance to escape, especially not since he knew how powerful he was.
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Luke wouldn't want to give Desaan a chance to escape, but he would give him the opportunity to redeem himself. Remember, the said Dark Jedi was once a student at the Academy. Skywalker would never condemn a former student to death that quickly, especially if he believed there was a chance to fix things.
And your ESB reference is irrelevant. As of the duel, Luke had yet to realize that Darth Vader was his father. All he knew of the Dark Lord was that he was very evil, he'd destroyed the Jedi Order, and he'd killed the one man who had all the answers, all the knowledge, that Luke could only ever dream to possess. Not to mention a very close friend.
No, all Luke wanted from that duel was Vader's head. The Sith Lord, however, wanted to turn Luke to the Dark Side. You have your facts mixed up.
But comon now, wouldent Luke at least try to talk to him if he wanted to turn him back? You don't really have any proof except that he was an old student and that it would ruin the game (like Vader in ESB, sorry got the facts wrong). He knew Desann had power from the valley of the jedi, he knew he had ships and an army of force users heading the way to the academy and a full operational battle station and didn't even know Desann was there before. I can't really see where it comes in that at this moment, Luke wants to turn Desann, that would take a lot of time.
Besides, Luke said himself that neither of them would face him alone, that he was more powerful than ever. Luke fell to the floor many times during that duel, looked like he had a freaking hard time, Desann didn't though. And the fact that Desann ran after he had bueried Luke under piles was because he had an invasion to do, not that he was scared (if you would bring that up).
This is my point of view of course, go ahead and tell me if I had gotten something messed up or facts wrong to prove that Luke did indeed did not give his all, I'm open to pursuations (spelled it right???).
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Dec 6th, 2005 11:19 PM
