Actually because of our previous debate, I always make it my business to give Thor his due...and whether I like it or not (and I don't), fact is, Marvel canon has him beating Surfer.
(stupid Marvel canon )
Yeah, and a word about Superman: never sell this guy short, ever! IMO, what makes him #3 in this scenario is that he has some very definite weaknesses which can be exploited, something Surfer and Thor really don't have. I think the 3/10, 3/10, 4/10 breakdown (and I ain't sayin' who gets what) is about as fair and as close as anyone can get.
Where are the Superman supporters?
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Shinier than a speeding bullet.
I don't agree that Thor is the most versatile. Regardless, in many ways, Thor is written like Surfer: he's usually depicted not using the vast powers at his disposal. And I do think that on those grounds, Superman would defeat him. But bring all that dimensional energy, power-absorbing and magical stuff to bear (and I assume fan-driven Thor would if they all fought in this thread), as much as I like Superman, I have a hard time seeing him beat him.
I was gonna point out earlier that whenever Thor and Hulk fought, at best Thor has stalemated Hulk, whereas Surfer has always handled Hulk easily. But again, if Thor was written to full potential, he should be handling Hulk as easily as Surfer does (ie, less fisticuffs, more use of energy).
With Hulk or Superman, one does Not go toe-to-toe if one expects to come out a winner.
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Shinier than a speeding bullet.
Last edited by Mindship on Apr 29th, 2006 at 10:12 PM
Thor did not have warrior madness, he was insane, which is very different. The result was that he was not holding back for fear of killing. In fact, he almost killed the Surfer and Beta Ray Bill.
IIRC Loki had given Surfer a boost as well.
It wasn't the hammer's power, it was his own power. The hammer was just a way to focus it. He can also release it from his own body but presumably the preparations are even longer. But Thor didnt need anything like his god-force to dominate the surfer.
Galactus wasn't in a weakened state he was his normal size. The fact is, although Galactus is far more powerful, Thor is powerful enough to kill a normal Galactus. This certainly cannot be said of the Surfer.
No, he is portrayed as precisely what he is, a user of the power cosmic. Even Galactus is limited in his control of the power cosmic so it only makes sense that the Surfer is even more limited in this respect.
1. "'Tis plain Thor is touched by the Warriors' Madness."
--- Beta Ray Bill, p 17 of that issue (the second Surfer/Thor fight).
2. Earlier in the issue of the first Surfer/Thor fight, Surfer stalemated Loki in one of those double hand-grip positions that superheroes like to do. This implies that, at best, Loki could only have doubled Surfer's power later on. This still puts Surfer way below what he was prior to the sonic shark incident. However, this is moot, since Marvel decided to completely ignore the whole sonic shark encounter.
3. Wherever that power comes from, Thor still needed prep time...prep time the Surfer could exploit. However, you are correct that Thor did not need that level of power to defeat Surfer, but then, I never said he did--I was responding to your Thor/Galactus reference.
4. Unfortunately, I no longer have that issue so can't comment on it with certainty regarding Galactus' exact power level, though also, I have never heard that Galactus' size relates to his power level (if you have canon text which states this, please post). As for Thor being "powerful enough to kill a normal Galactus"--this may well be true, assuming Galactus does nothing to defend himself (could not Spider-Man kill Thor if Thor does nothing to defend himself?), and as I recall, Galactus was not actively confronting Thor at the time Thor launched his assault. This evaluation of Thor's power also sounds more like opinion than canon. If canon, please post text. Regardless, Thor fighting Galactus is off-topic.
(As for Surfer not having that kind of power: In FF#50, where Surfer is fighting Galactus, SS says while encasing Galactus in a hardening cocoon of energy, "I cannot bring myself to cause him injury. I seek only to place him in restraint." Galactus did bust out and later deflected all the Surfer's subsequent attacks, but then, he was more actively engaging the Surfer than he was Thor when Thor attacked him. Thus, it can be reasonably argued that what you said about Thor could be said about Surfer--assuming no canon text exists to support your claim.
5. Given the vast array of power at the Surfer's disposal, and that 90% of the time he is basically shown flying around, firing cosmic bolts: clearly, he is rarely written to full potential, and for the same reason Thor is rarely written to full potential: imagine the challenge, the nigh-impossibility of constantly writing interesting and believable stories about either (or Superman, too, for that matter), if writers cut loose all the time. This is one of the drawbacks of having characters at these power levels.
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Shinier than a speeding bullet.
Surfer probably has the most general power, but I'd still choose Thor. If I didn't know the opponent and needed a person to fight for me, Thor has the most versatility and least # of discernable weaknesses.
Energy manip: Surfer>Thor>Supes
Strength: Supes=Thor>Surfer
Durability: Thor=Supes=Surfer
Speed: Surfer=Supes>Thor
Thor has shown that the slight speed disadvantage isn't really an issue, against both Supes and Surfer (he's fought both and had good showings).
Then add in his magical nature, which gives him immunities that Supes definitely doesn't have and Surfer might not have, and his overall "durability" looks even more impressive.
...
Bottom line: It depends on the opponent. These 3 are slightly better/worse in different situations. But I still hold by the opinion that if you didn't know the opponent, Thor would be your safest bet.
If i were going into a street fight where the odds are stacked against me, i think i would have surfer watch my back. Don't get me wrong Thor is 1 of my fav characters , but he is not that smart. Hes more of a bruticus, than a technician.
Surfer is very strong. Just cause he doesnt go around lifting mountains, doesnt mean he isnt super strong. He is not a brawler like the other 2 thats all.
All no holding back , enraged, blood lust, the works.
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Apr 29th, 2006 09:47 PM
thanks, i think . . .
) are really throwing their lot in. yet . . . 
