And yet as its conclusively not something she did with the conscious application of her power and as theres no evidence to support she could consciously apply her power on that scale, its irrelevant as either way it wasnt a feat of hers. Just something she initiated after a botch job. Wandas conclusive feats are warping reality on earth 616 (possibly the universe, although one would have thought the abstracts would have gotten involved if that were the case), creating constructs of the Kree Army and as it appears, Dormammu.
We'll have to wait until her bio comes out in a few months to set the story straight.
1) Thanks for the Beyonce pic. To bad she sleeps with camels.
2) Long essay.
It's still of no substance GS. The Chaos Wave was a possibility realized via Wanda's power. You can't "yodel" a Chaos Wave. You can, however, cause one if your power is to manipulate probabilities. No matter how much you try to downplay it, it happened, and it was a direct result of Wanda's power. The fact it was due to incompetence on her part doesn't change the fact it happened. And now that it's a known possibility, there's logically a possibility of it happening again. That is the very nature of Wanda's power.
3) You always bait me into these damn debates!!!!
4) Wanda can, by reflex, cause opponents to miss, spontaneously combust, or cause their powers to short out in her presence without exerting an extraordinate amount of concentration and effort.
5) Wanda has withstood lethal blows on a few occasions due to her powers. Even to the point of seemingly ressurecting herself.
6) Feats are as subjective as WWE matches. Someone's always jobbing and someone's always the beneficiary of exaggerated potency. I see feats for what they are, and take the character's actual abilities into account more than their feats. That's why I could care less what people say, Cloak and/or Nightcrawler would kill Hulk even though Hulk is infinitely more powerful.
7) "Jggggg!!!!!" = Defeat.
8) See #7.
9)
Hypocrite.
How can you be the champion of using plot driven canon 'feats' in every debate, and yet say "per forum rules PIS/CIS are quite usefully not brought into the equation" and claim Jean's death as such.
Jean's died on a few occasions in canon material.
You can't have it both ways GS.
You can't cry "plot device" when it comes to Jean being killed by Xorn, and yet Living Tribunal trying to kill Korvac indirectly using a supernova that Korvac is capable of shielding himself from shows he's "weak". Jean's simply been proven time and again to be incompetent with her powers, and also subject to possibility, because it's possible for her to die, possible for her to shatter, possible for her to be manipulated, and possible for her powers to be occupied by someone else.
All canon.
10) The chick wears a glass Baby Phat crown from a swap meet, and I hope Necrom comes back again and breaks out the KY Jelly for Jean like he did for the Phoenix in Excalibur. Retcon's be damned!
I actually read this last night, but i came to an unthinkable conclusion, therefore i decided to sleep on it and see how i was feeling in the morning. Im up and unfortunately for some ive only gone and come to the same conclusion....im actually gonna have to own my friend
You have to be very careful with your wording here my friend because it sounds like youre saying that the Chaos Wave was a direct application of Wandas power. If so, that notion is completely unsupported on panel therefore it is irrelevant here in debate. Mere opinion. ------>
The chaos wave was possibly one of two things:
a) The result of a tear in the "branes" between realities (a la "Legion Quest" and as strongly implied by Roma)
b) A spillover of the energies Wanda tapped into to warp reality on Earth 616.
What holds true for both possibilities is that the resultant destruction wasnt a feat for Wanda. Her actions proved to be the catalyst which resulted in the chaos wave. Theres no evidence whatsoever to say that Wanda could consciously generate and maintain a wave of destruction to sweep over the multiverse. Sure she could be the catalyst and set one off again in the future, thats not in debate and stands to reason, however doing so doesnt make her anything beyond global/universal level. Setting something off and letting it spin out of control doesnt make the resultant destruction a feat of yours. My avalanche analogy was perfectly suitable. No you cant yodel a chaos wave but then Wanda didnt directly generate one either. It was however the result of a direct application of her power (the warping of earth 616) which in turn brought about as a side effect either one of the aforementioned possibilities. Hence the yodelling in the mountains resulting in a wave of destruction (the avalanche) and said avalanche sweeping over and destroying nearby towns, killing people who would otherwise own you in a direct one on one confrontation, basically causing destruction you couldnt bring about (or at least havent shown to be able to) directly by yodelling. Wandas actions merely proved to be the catalyst for the wave and as with before it can easily be stopped without the interference of any higher powers.
Another thing most people seem to misinterpret is what the chaos wave actually did. It never went around warping other realities, as stated on panel it went around and eroded the branes between other realities which resulted in a loss of order causing elements of said realities to merge together as we saw in the Otherworld scene in Uncanny X-men 462.
Wandas reflexes are human. That was my point in my previous posts and it remains my point now. Genis could attack her multiple times before she even registered what was happening.
Precisely. Due to her powers. To protect or seemingly resurrect herself would require her to consciously apply her powers, she would have to think. Genis is a cosmic being, Wanda as standard has human durability. He could incinerate her or teleport her head off before she could react.
It is true what you say to an extent. However what you mustnt do is ignore feats and on panel depictions entirely in favour of looking at their stated powerset and going overboard with speculation on what you think said abilities would enable them to do. It doesnt work like that im afraid. Wanda can manipulate probabilities, causality itself, however based on those abilities you cant assume and then try to treat as fact here that absolutely anything thats possible Wanda can bring about. Thats just naive. Not all possibilities require the same output to bring about, some may require more energy than is within Wandas abilities to tap into and employ. You just dont know. Therefore all we can do is use feats as a guideline for the extents of her abilities. Wandas conclusive high level feats as far as we know are warping earth 616, (possibly the universe), therefore it would be naive to think she could materialize any probability dramatically beyond that global (?) scale.
Please remember that she stated herself that to consciously warp reality as she did and maintain it was beyond her ability to hold together, hence why she brought about house of M, with the moral support of her brother and Xavier to co-ordinate the employment of her abilities.
Whatever are you talking about Ill? Yeah Phoenix has died on a few occasions. The first time was on the moon at the end of the Dark P Saga and it was self inflicted, because she wanted end her physical existence at that time. The second time was when Xorneto killed her physical body.
As stated in her bio and as demonstrated on panel Phoenix can have any power she wants, generate any energy she wants, in any amount. While she is ultimately totally indestructible in essence as stated she can create a physical body for herself and make herself as durable as she wishes. Given that power set, her feats and the fact that it was stated time and time again in the run that it is the nature and way of the Phoenix to die to be reborn and that Jean had work to do elsewhere, her death in New X-men was a plot device. Her deaths are within canon however her power set and her feats achieved with it are also canon which is the crux of the matter.
Ive already explained my stance on LT in that Korvac What If so i really shouldnt have to do so again. It is not my opinion that LT is weak and i never used that What If to support a claim that he is weak. In fact ive spent the past week arguing against people who have been underrating LT as a result of misinterpreting the point i was trying to make. What i did use that What If for (along with many other LT appearances) was to argue the case that LTs options are limited when it comes to confrontation. His role comes first so he cannot engage in any confrontation that will require an output that could compromise his role as protector of realities. Hence his tendency to employ the heroes of a universe to deal with confrontation, talk his way out of a confrontation, lack of high level output in confrontation and tendency to seal threats off which could necessitate such an output. Given that thats what i was arguing your point pertaining to my hypocrisy is null and void.
As Phoenix, Jean has access to any power she desires, at any level she desires. That point is stated in her bio. Her only limit is her human imagination, but at the same time she can forsake her humanity and become an energy form as also stated in her bio. As stated and shown on panel she can be guided by the Force or simply let the Phoenix consciousness take over. Jean died because she allowed herself to, she was manipulated by Mastermind because she shut down her power via psychic circuit breakers. When you have a character with such abilities the only way you are going to beat it is via plot devices. That is the very reason why Jean was killed in the first place, read any John Byrne interview pertaining to the matter and you will see for yourself.
According to forum rules any character that has it within their abilities to regenerate or resurrect themselves can do so within battle and carry on fighting without that being considered a loss. So in a forum battle Jean could never lose against Wanda NEVER!! Mwahahahaha!!
Dont turn bitter on me now Ill. As for that crown status...heres another pic:
Never gonna happen. Her being isnt determined by any factors he or Wanda can control. They would have nothing to work with im afraid. Whereas all reality is brought about by Phoenix anyway. Without the Force present in reality as stated on panel there would be nothing but a void with no potential for life whatsoever. His and Wandas very existence is dependent on Phoenix and dont you forget that sonny.
Plus she can employ reality warping abilities if she so desired. The only difference being that hers would operate on a far greater scale than the little mutants.
At Full Potential, Genis Marvel doesn't even need to be near Wanda to kill her. He could make her believe she died and that in itself would kill her. This is due to Cosmic Powers, which is supposed to be the most powerful in existence. Just my little ole' opinion.
Genis can "manipulate the electrical synapses of [someones] brain. Convincing them that [he] annihilated them." As stated in Captain Marvel, issue 56.
That alone should be enough (combined with Cosmic Awareness) to take her down.
GS, where would you put Wanda? Would you put her beyond let's say Odin in power level, what she could do?
I would say she has greater power than Genis, I really don't care if he is a cosmic being.
Oh yeah, shes definitely greater in power than Genis, by aloooong way, but despite her much greater power shes still human and as such she'll lose due to her durability and her reaction time. Its not all about power.
This isnt the comics. This is a forum debate. We dont account for PIS/CIS here. Wanda has human durability and human reactions, despite being ridiculously more powerful than Genis she would get incinerated before she even registers whats happening.
The fight wouldnt be like that at all. According to forum rules the characters at least have basic knowledge of each other before the fight. Genis would know about how powerful she is and as a result would just take her out via a speedblitz. Her human reaction time and human durability let the side down big time.
Its a possibility. Considering forum rules its the most likely one. They'll go into the battle knowing the basics about each other. Genis has cosmically enhanced reactions times and moves at the speed of light. The speed of thought is ridiculously slower. Even at multiple mach speeds thats a possibility. Do the math. Or more simply just look at Quicksilver. Genis can incinerate her body with a single blast (given her human durability) before she can react (given her human reactions)
Immediately from her perspective. You need to remember that. Unfortunately for her due to her reaction times Genis could have attacked her multiple times before she could lift a finger.
Jean's physical form has been killed and manipulated on various occasions. Mad Jim Jasper's would **** Jean up. Xorn gave her a stroke in combat, and he's no where near as potent as Jasper's is.
All canon. Jean is susceptible. Forcing her back into the Phoenix Egg constitutes a victory.
She's susceptible to their powers whether you like it or not.
And another thing, Jean's telekinetic "re-writing" of a universe's timeline that you trump as a major feat was simply Jean manipulating Scott's past thoughts from the White Hot Room to head off a divergent future timeline, she didn't change the universe electron by electron.
And you know your essays won't shut me up, I'll always find a hole to slap your girl, my friend. Do you really want to do this again? We're better as allies than as opponents.
Wanda's powers also work as an involuntary response to protect her from danger. She can "unconsciously" cause Genis, who is already prone to mental instability, to have a mental episode before he's able to attack without willing the probability. For her to consciously map out a desired outcome takes some thought on her end, but spontaneous effects are also prevalent in Wanda's canon portrayal.
KMC Community Forums
May 7th, 2006 12:19 PM
To bad she sleeps with camels. 
