Isn't the magic however somewhat weaker? Like the same trait when used with unspoken spells. Like could the killing curse be performed with a wand and still kill someone or is the use of the wand purely for show "Ha I can kill you and look cool doing it" etc. Also Gandalf would not need to use magic to break a wand if he could get close enough he has a sword, a rather powerful sword and since I last knew hitting wooden objects very hard with big metal objects usually results in some form of damage.
Also I would at most say Voldermort was of equal power to Saurman and Gandalf since as Curumo and Olorin respectively they did kinda have a hand in making well the whole world, they were immortal spirits and were of a form of "angelic order". Whilst Saurman still fell into shadow he did not loose his power for Gandalf to shatter his staff was a show of great power. It is speculated that Gandalf as the White was the second most powerful being in existence save the one that sat in Barad-dûr.
I personally think Gandalf has this one in summary
1. He is an immortal spirit simply killing his flesh could not be seen as a victory
2. He has a very high resistance to physical harm, to fight the Balrog for so long he would have to.
3. Gandalf may use with competence both sword and magic to disarm his enemy or slay them.
4. Gandalf is somewhat more versatile thinking on his feet he one even lit pine cones on fire and used them as flaming projectiles.
5. If it came down to both of them killing the other, Gandalf would not truly be dead his spirt would live on.
__________________ Yet the making of things is in my heart from my own making by thee; and the child of little understanding that makes a play of the deeds of his father may do so without without thought of mockery, but because he is the son of his father.
I absolutely love the type of magic (or Art) used in Middle-Earth compared to the ridiculous lightning flinging mages of other fantasy realms. LOTR magic is so sutle yet its power is greater than say Harry Potter's or D&D's. I think the fireballing mages ruin stories with their limitless spellflinging and invincibility.
So do I. Sometimes when LOTR uses magic you're like "didn't see that coming!!" but when it's with Harry Potter or D&D it's like "who didn't see that one coming?"
Me and my friend have arguments about LOTR characters vs. HP characters all the time. I beleive Gandalf would win because he is impervious to weapons, (and yes the matter that comes out of a wand is a weapon) and he can creat a force-field around him. so even if voldemort was somehow able to shoot gandalf with avada kadavra, gandalf can just creat a forcefield.
The magic in Harry Potter is far more tangible and extreme than that of Lord of the Rings. In Potter, we have spells that outright kill or perform specific functions, whereas in LOTR they are more effects than functions.
For example, Avada Kedavra has the specific function of killing, whereas Gandalf relied on spells to weaken a bridge, set things on fire, etc.
As with the Force in the older Star Wars movies, magic in Lord of the Rings is relatively subtle.
I've just read this whole thread and cringed at some of these comments. Some of the people that posted comments on here are ignorant about information concerning LOTR (Blaxican Hydra in especial) probably because they've never touched any of Tolkien's books or seen the movie, or may have only seen the movie, which of course every LOTR fan knows deviates far from the book in many parts and skips much material from the book (understandably for the sake of time) thus it is a beautiful representation of the book, but not an ETIRELY true one.
I suggest you do actually read the trilogy before writing your comments on here, so that your opinions are based on FACTS instead of just your OPINION.
You can't actually compare the magic abilities of Gandalf against Voldemort, it's impossible. The books and films have very little in common. Infact, Tolkien didn't even like to call Gandalf's abilities 'magic' and he even denies that magic is very important in his world at all (thus why there is very little in the book). He made a point of saying (and I'm quoting the man himself here...) that he uses the word "wizard" to mean something "utterly distinct from sorcerer or magician" (from The Letters Of J.R.R. Tolkien edited by H. Carpenter with Christopher Tolkien, 159).
Last edited by The Secret Fire on Oct 18th, 2007 at 04:58 PM
it is difficult to compare the two if we constrain it to being absolutely technical, but you could use your imagination I think. Be that as it may, Gandalf would totally kill Voldemort.
Maikahyandowen, I wasn't being technical. I was simply speaking off true facts. Imagination has nothing to do with it, Gandalf's world and Voldemorts world are TOTALLY different! That's just fact. Gandalf doesn't use magic in the way that Voldemort does (& visa versa), they're just too different to even be compared to one another. As I quoted in my last post, Tolkien doesn't even consider Gandalf to use "magic".
And for the record: GANDALF NEVER BATTLED THE WITCH KING. Here's the evidence, an excerpt from ROTK, The Siege of Gondor, the last pages:
Thrice he cried [The Black Rider (the Witch King, the Lord of the Nazgul)]. Thrice the great ram [Grond] boomed. And suddenly upon the last stroke the Gate of Gondor broke. As if stricken by some blasting spell it burst assunder; there was a flash of searing lightning, and the doors tumbled in riven fragments to the ground.
In rode the Lord of the Nazgul. A great black shape against the fires beyond he loomed up, grown to a vast menace of despair. In rode the Lord of the Nazgul, under the archway that no enemy ever yet had passed, and all fled before his face.
All save one. There waiting, silent and still in the space before the gate, sat Gandalf upon Shadowfax: Shadowfax who alone among the free horses of the earth endured the terror, unmoving, steadfast as a graven image in Rath Dinen.
'You cannot enter here,' said Gandalf, and the huge shadow halted. 'Go back to the abyss prepared for you! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your Master. Go!'
The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! he had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible was it set. The red fires shone between it and the mantled shoulders vast and dark. From a mouth unseen there came a deadly laughter.
'Old fool!' he said. 'Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!' And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.
Gandalf did not move. And in that very moment, behind away in some courtyard of the City, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn.
And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark, Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.
The Sacred Fire, get your thoughts together and write them down in one post.
__________________
I am not driven by people’ s praise and I am not slowed down by people’ s criticism.
You only live once. But if you live it right, once is enough. Wrong. We only die once, we live every day!
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