Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
as SOON as he fell into the grave once winning the key(quite unfairly from norrie and will)..he got pulled out..and he started to learn from his mistakes when trying to get it back..He's going to learn how to be the "true key to her heart" by the end of movie 3 I think
He's probably gonna use her as leverage just one more time in movie 3..but she's not gonna be safe like he thinks she will be..and this is gonna hit him HARD!!!
When he's running in the wheel..he thinks he's all smart and is smiling thinking he's about to get the key back.. Then all of a sudden WHAM in the head with that bar..its like "YOU IDIOT JACK!"..he gets up and STILL chases it..this time he avoids the bar!..he wont ever treat her as leverage AGAIN because he LOVES HER
what interests me is how he saves it from William who has it on the end of his sword
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 1st, 2006 at 10:58 PM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
Oh and vegaofthelyre!! With your theory in mind!! then its no coincidence then that the dog/Jack after the credits has a big fat BONE in his mouth instead of the keys he once held so dear..doggie made some changes..doggies gonna get the bone!..Jack will get Liz.
The bone was the temptation of the dog in movie 1...it was the chance to take it from one person and give up his keys to them..but he was'nt ready and he ran away...when the dog was on his own with lots of people he was defiant to change his attitude for people..but when it was one on one? doggie wanted it..
So yes..Jack has made that change in his purgatory..the dog was sitting as a king in his purgatory with that bone.. (skeleton man dancing)
just before the dog got here..he was protecting everyone and letting them get away from the baddies..(jack protected them all from the Kraken) The dog aslo had the keys in his mouth but lost them after he had just abandoned the two on the boat to get taken under...that was the point where Jack realized he wanted to go back to Liz to save her..
he so obviously made himself loose from the chain so that he could kill it for her..despite the fact she just did that to him...It wasnt to go down with honor..he did it to save her..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 1st, 2006 at 11:23 PM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
Hey I know I'm spamming alot with all my posts at the moment..but I'm SO PISSED OFF right now..these people keep telling me that its been confirmed from "insiders" that its a Will/Liz ending..then why the feck is there all this stuff..like the dog and the Sleeping beauty effect..and the key etc..its all too much symbolism to suggest he's gonna change for Liz for it to be a FRIGGIN Will liz ending..I'm sorry but DISNEY?? WHAT THE HELL!?? are you really gonna do that after putting all this symbolism in ur movies?? SERIOUSLY!
what the heckeroo??
all these themes of Jack beginning to change etc for Liz..then all of a sudden revert back to crap?
All the themes of Jack realizing through Liz to be a better man in life and finally be loved by someone??
Thats a much more interesting lesson/ending to be learned in a movie then characters being tempted by something and reverting back to how they were..BS
"now kids don't ever be tempted..stay nice and clean!"
this is a PIRATES MOVIE..its not meant to be clean!!!!
and why did you put that "yo ho yo ho a pirates life for me" hint in your trailer..so Liz WONt be joining jack in a life of piracy? Ok so Liz doesn't want to be a pirate and free after wanting it her ENTIRE LIFE?
friggin roller coaster ride this is!! I would personally lose alot of respect for disney doing this kind of ending..seriously..boring whimper or what?
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 2nd, 2006 at 02:28 AM
Gender: Female Location: at the second star to the right
We need to write to Disney, petition or something.
I like the idea that this is Jack's "deep sleep" for him to think and change. I never thought of those sleeping death stories that way. It is a time that maybe somewhere in their mind, there is something awake and developing while the body sleeps. When you're alone with just you and your mind, it doesn't matter what you're thinking because there is no one else to put a front up for.
That's how I view Jack. He constantly puts up fronts, largely to protect himself. He usually puts up the front of being a half-crazed drunk. Johnny Depp himself has said that Jack has had too much time in the sun, so I think some of the clumsiness could be attributed to a previous experience of heat stroke or heat exhaustion, but I think he's mostly just naturally clumsy (as with all the tripping) along with putting up that front.
He also puts up a front for Will. He is always super confident around Will and while in a way is acting as a mentor for him, he never tells Will the complete truth or seems to care about Will's safety at all, although we know from the first movie, he really does not want to put Will in jeopardy.
He also puts up the front of heartlessness for Liz at first. He made the mistake of acting too long that he just thought of her as a sex object. You could tell he enjoyed her company a lot when they were marooned on the island. I mean, "there'll be no living with her after this." ? He's saying this to himself. He had the hots for her and would like to see more of her, and when he finally gets a lot of quality time with her, he lets this front drop and shows her he is the good man she always thought he was.
So it seems like for certain people and at certain times he sheds his fronts and is completely himself. I'd like to hear more about his pre-pirate days just to get a sense of how he acts when he's just himself. I think he's naturally clumsy, funny, easy-going, but a total genius. His mind is really keen, and maybe there will be a fun prequel showing him when he worked for the EITC and how he used his cleverness there before he decided to be a pirate and truly have freedom.
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
Posted this on KTTC.com
You even see the "sleeping beauty" element in buffy the vampire slayer
Spike the bad boy gains his soul and awakens to become the right man for Buffy. He's still very mugh the bad boy..but he has changed from vampire to vampire with a soul. Her lust for him turns to love..hint hint
Angel on the other hand appears to be the right man. But is in fact dangerous to be with her. Hint Hint
Riley is a good boy..but he just aint enough.."buff like darkness in her men"
and to start with she actually DENIES herself Spike and leaves him becuase he is still a vampire..she says it cant be love because he wont ever be able to change(only lust)..so what does he do? He gains his soul..the old part of him dies and a new part awakens And buffy falls head over heals for him
someone also said this named Sparrowsawnsong:
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 2nd, 2006 at 04:17 PM
woah guys this thread is intense, i am loving it. LovelyOne, Vegaofthelyre, and Willofthewisp, you guys have really deep stuff. i LOVE LOVE LOVE the stuff about Jack being the archetypal trickster, and the deep transformation... made me think of Gandalf in LOTR, just cause i just watched it... and you know he struggles to protect the fellowship but after he dies and comes back, he has gained strength, resolve, and gumption... to the point where he knows who he must protect and what his role will be in the war.
so with Jack, i think this must represent a HUGE transformation, and if it doesnt, disney has made a huge mistake...
however, there is still a possibility that a forward transformation with Jack would lead him to give up Liz for some reason that we wouldn't know at this point.
As far as Will's character, i think he's going to come to the very edge of going completely out of his mind evil... and be pulled back by Jack, or his father. THEN i think he is going to balance that act out with doing something incredibly heroic... whether that would be dying for Liz, or just saving everyone by being super brave. i think he is going to become a lot more independent, if you notice, he seems to always be following/working with Jack or Liz or his father or something... he seldom just does things on his own, he makes his decisions based on someone else. SO i think he is going to get better at ordering people around and acting on his impulses, that sort of thing.
Liz... Liz is interesting, because she's a girl, so she doesn't develop in a straight line, its more of a cycle, ya know? She starts out the film as a cheeky little girl with a vivid imagination, excited though frightened by pirates. When she is originally saved by Jack, she seems shocked that they are actually quite dangerous, but she clearly wanted him to escape... then she goes through this whole process of trading herself for will's freedom, only to realize Norrington (at this point) isnt a pirate and shouldn't be treated like one- she is honest with him, and given freedom.
Would she ever have gotten engaged to Will if he hadn't saved Jack at the end of 1? IMO, NO. She still looked pissed off at him when he came up to her at the hanging... and when he said i love you, she didn't respond. However, after Will acted super-piraty and rebellious and stood up to her father and norri, she decided to try things out with him. Will's line "its right here, between you and Jack", was followed by her saying "as is mine". Does that mean she meant her place was WITH WILL, or AWAY FROM HER FATHER/SOCIETY, WITH A PIRATE? SUPPORTING JACK and FREEDOM?
"So this is where your heart truly lies, then?"
"It is."
This still doesn't really have anything to do with Will. It's a lifestyle choice Liz seems to be making.
No wonder her and Will's wedding didnt work out- she was WEARING A CORSET TO IT.
__________________
"Get that out of my face." "It's not in your face, it's in my hand." "Get what's in your hand out of my face." <3 set by yours truly
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
I agree with you so much Katelovespirate excellent post!
I have another moment of "awakening" and it comes from a Disney Movie itself.
The Lion King.
Simba is born a good "lion" and he is born to be a brave and fearless king
Jack sparrow once saved 99 slaves in his past...where the heck did that go Jack?
Somewhere along the line something traumatic happens to simba (loses a loved one) And he runs away from his brave and fearless life. He becomes a trickster/rogue
I feel this may echo with Jack..what hurt him so much in the past? Nala tries to make him come back with her, he listens but is afraid to go back he wont go..its only when she comes back that he begins to show care about doing the right thing again however...still in a bit of denial.
Simba gets an awakening moment where he is spiritually altered.
Jack has his spiritual awakening moment (death)
Simba returns home and becomes the king he was born to be...He returns and has a child with Nala
Jack is going to come back..and become what he always was meant to be...all because of Elizabeth in t ..its sightly different because she is the one who sent him into that spiritual awakening(not rafiki lol). And she also made him start to care again before he did
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 2nd, 2006 at 07:54 PM
__________________
"Get that out of my face." "It's not in your face, it's in my hand." "Get what's in your hand out of my face." <3 set by yours truly
there really is no way to contact them, is there. unless someone on this website has Jerry Bruckheimer,or Johnny Depp, or Ted Elliot, or Terry Rossio, or Gore Verbinski's phone number, its not likely that someone from the pirates cast and crew will look here
__________________
"Get that out of my face." "It's not in your face, it's in my hand." "Get what's in your hand out of my face." <3 set by yours truly
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
I honestly think its what they are doing already.
Its actually tia who gave him the awakening moment I think..she set the events up..she wants him to return the champion for her.....So that she can offer him immortality
but thats not in JACK's eyes..the person who gave him it was ELIZABETH (chained him up) and Tia is seriously underestimating that IMO...Jack was probably going to stay on the pearl for Liz anyway so she could be safe..and had Liz not crossed that line with him (became all the more desierable)..Tia's plan may have worked..he would choose immortality when she offered it...but he's going to DENY Immortality once she offers it..and its all becuase of what Liz did to him right there on the pearl.
I dont think Tia knows what Liz "made" him do.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 2nd, 2006 at 08:08 PM
__________________
"Get that out of my face." "It's not in your face, it's in my hand." "Get what's in your hand out of my face." <3 set by yours truly
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
you know what..I hope its not Tia/calypso he ends up with..apparently the director has said "Its a bitter sweet ending" for Jack. As in he choses immortality..which is a curse and a blessing
KMC Community Forums
Sep 1st, 2006 10:34 PM
yes, yes it is... 
thank goodness somebody noticed
