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willofthewisp
Savvy did my sig
Gender: Female
Location: at the second star to the right |
That's an interesting point, Gideon. I think to balance what I said with what you said, would you agree a swordfight between Beckett and one of the heroes would be just? If they killed Beckett in defense of their own life?
I just didn't like the fact he was given this larger-than-life death scene. It was almost like they were trying to make him sympathetic. Also, if the protagonists are pirates, I don't think they fit the mold of the classical hero.
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Jun 3rd, 2007 05:58 PM |
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Gideon
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Gender: Male
Location: Your Mom. Account Restricted |
Certainly; heroes, in the process of their adventurers, will be confronted by foes whom they will have to kill, or be killed themselves. An actual fight with Beckett and killing him would be a measure of self defense. Which, of course, could be extrapolated to be the reason behind their assault on the Endeavour. Beckett was in command of a situation, and in a position to rather easily crush Jack, Will, and everyone whom he didn't like...
...'til the Dutchman came along.
As far as the 'pirates' are concerned, yes, Disney has put a bit of a colorful spin on such a dishonorable trade. I'm certain that Pirates like Jack Sparrow were few and far between. No, Jack and Will are both anti-heroes. Both have done heroic things, yup. But both of them have committed some very serious... well... "sins", I suppose, without any display of remorse.
That is what defines a hero. A hero isn't perfect. Hell, even in Star Wars, the heroes get duped and manipulated by the villains all the time. They kill, they fight. But they do it because they have to, not because they just want to. Heroes are supposed to be flawed. The difference is, a true hero eventually confesses that he made a mistake, and does what he can to amend it.
The heroes of Pirates aren't really heroes because they seem to enjoy what they do. I'm not defending Beckett, either. Hell, the man was a sociopathic monster who likely had to have been killed in order to stop him. But I'm not the type of person who enjoys it when heroes kill. I enjoy when villains kill in movies because that is what they are supposed to do.
That said, don't get me wrong. Characters like Jack and Will are much more interesting than most 'do-gooders', and much more fun to watch. But are they truly heroes? I hardly think so.
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Jun 3rd, 2007 08:56 PM |
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willofthewisp
Savvy did my sig
Gender: Female
Location: at the second star to the right |
See, the way I define a hero is someone who selflessly commits an act of bravery for a higher purpose. If you use that, then I would say that Jack, Will, and Elizabeth are heroes. I think you and I are agreed they're the protagonists, of course. But are they heroes? I would say yes. They are each other's heroes.
COTBP:
1. Elizabeth takes the coin from Will to protect him. It's a small act, but she is putting someone else above herself. For a child, that's usually a hard thing to do.
2. Jack saves Elizabeth from drowning, putting himself at risk to be caught. He didn't know who she was or that she would argue for him to be released. He just didn't want someone to drown.
3. Will risks death to save Elizabeth when he reveals he's the son of Bootstrap Bill. He would have shot himself rather than have her hurt (and worse) by Barbossa and his crew. Is that not acting heroically?
4. Elizabeth goes back for Will and Jack all on her own without the help of any of the pirates. She could probably die since she has never shot a gun or lifted a sword at this time, but she goes back for them to help. That is an act of heroism.
DMC
True, all the characters are more selfish here and their anti-hero status starts shining through even brighter, lol. But there is a lot of heroism going on, just in a quieter form.
1. From a certain point of view, Elizabeth confronting Beckett and then traveling to Tortuga is an act of heroism. She wants to find Will and make sure he's safe. She does a few acts of piracy on her way, but it's for someone she loves. She is braving arrest, rape, kidnapping, and all the random criminal acts that occur on Tortuga.
2. Jack comes back. It is probably one of the two most heroic things he does. T&T believe the compass is pointing to land when he is in the longboat and that he gives up what he wants to face the enemy with his friends.
AWE
James Norrington: We haven't talked about him much, but he saves Elizabeth and it is one of the most selfless things any of them do. He could have furthered his career (and life) by keeping her prisoner, but he frees them.
Jack lets Will stab the heart so he can live. Once again, Jack gives up what he wants (immortality) to help his friends.
So, maybe Jack, Will, and Liz aren't your mainstream heroes, but they are each other's heroes. Their lives depend on one another and it is through their courage that the others live.
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Jun 3rd, 2007 11:06 PM |
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willofthewisp
Savvy did my sig
Gender: Female
Location: at the second star to the right |
So back to Beckett, I guess I'm saying he just got off too easy. It would have even been fine with me had King George or whoever the king is at this time found him and tried him for treason and all that stuff and he languished in prison. I just think they romanticized his death whereas a sympathetic character like Swann got about 7 minutes of screen time without a death scene at all and Norrington, well, nearly all his screen time was his death and he acted heroically and died doing a brave thing: resisting the temptation to work for Davy Jones. So why does the arch villain get a romantic, haunting death? Just not understanding.
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Jun 3rd, 2007 11:23 PM |
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Gideon
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Gender: Male
Location: Your Mom. Account Restricted |
The scene itself was a masterpiece. But, yes, Beckett had the most serene, haunting death of the lot of them, and he was the vicious bastard who caused most of the problems.
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Jun 4th, 2007 04:26 AM |
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