Poor king he had the money to build a maze the size of a football field and yet he couldn't fund an army. On the other hand if he did have an army (which seems reasonable) then Theseus taking him down says more about Theseus than about the Minotaur.
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Graffiti outside Latin class.
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A juvenal prank.
Not quite. I mean, I can see how such a leap would be reasonable, but (and, lord, I can't believe I'm asking this) where are his speed feats? His strength feats? His skill feats?
He was the son of Poseidon. Awesome. Never saw a single thing that'd put him ANYWHERE near the level of captain america, though.
Training in wrestling, boxing, discus, javelin, swordplay
Lifted a very large stone (no details in my translation) as a teenager
Killed a giant boar (herc style I assume) that was powerful enough to terrorize yokels
Noted as stronger than "PineBender" a man who used a pine tree as a club
He killed PineBender by bending down two pine trees and tying the man to their tops
He kicked an old man off a cliff
Beat Cercyon at wrestling. Cercyon wrestled every person who came along the path so he can be assumed to have some skill
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Graffiti outside Latin class.
Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
A juvenal prank.
You're right, I can't believe you are asking for feats either!
Theseus is an odd one, he is meant to have lifted with ease a huge boulder at age 16 but seeing as he is credited as "Inventing" scientific wrestling where a lightweight can beat a stronger adversary by fancy footwork, trick holds and using the opponent's momentum to his advantage, it can e argued if he had brute strength then he wouldn't have needed to come up with these tactics.
So he could have just been very resourceful which in itself was an heroic trait.
He did take on Periphetes who was a large man and the son of Hephaestus who carried a club wrapped in bronze and use to waylay and killer travellers, he simply took it off him and brained him with it.
He turned the tables on Sinis, who had a nasty habit of tying people to, two bent pine trees and letting them fly, scattering their body parts across the plains.
He killed Sciron, a nasty piece of work who used to kick people off cliffs while they were washing his feet, again though he used his brain more than brawn.
He may have killed the Minotaur with his bare hands, either beating it to death or breaking off one of its horns and stabbing it, as Theseus was meant to be a sacrifice so wasn't meant to have weapons, although most artists impressions have him killing the Minotaur with a sword or dagger.
Some versions of the tale even have him creeping up on the Minotaur while it slept and beating it to death before it could fight back.
The bigger feat was really him escaping the labyrinth and again showed his resourcefulness and his intelligence.
Hes more of an Odesyeus type hero than a Heracles, in fact Heracles was his cousin and he was said to have been there when he faced the Amazons, he actually kidnapped the Amazon queen on a later adventure as well as the then 13 year old Helen of Troy.
He seems to have been a pretty skillful fighter but more of a thinker than a muscle man and if you take the depictions of him braining the Minotaur in its sleep then it doesn't give a decent indication of eithers abilities.
As I said before, what part of this puts him on Cap's level? He invented a form of leverage wrestling? Cool. He invented it THEN - Cap's mastered the version that has been reworked, changed, and improved upon for the last several thousand years.
And as you mentioned, many of his feats were intelligence and resourcefulness. Which is awesome, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't mean that he could dodge bullets. It doesn't mean he could hold a missile silo open with his bare hands. It doesn't mean he could punch out of a reactor core. It doesn't mean he could defeat an opponent who was the perfect master of every fighting style on the planet.
We're talking about the Captain America. The guy that's faster than human eyes can track, the guy that can see bullets in slow motion, the guy that can destroy a MUCH more powerful opponent with a tactful hit to...well...anywhere. He'll find a nerve, .
It'd be slightly inane to think that even three minotaurs could tag Captain America if he doesn't want to be tagged.
Likewise, it's hard to believe that a good shield throw or two wouldn't put them down for the count. Or, for good if Cap decides so.
I didn't say it did put him on Cap's level, you asked for feats and I was giving you some.
What I am saying is that if Theseus defeated the Minotaur while it slept and seeing as the Minotaur was only ever fed unarmed and usualy young and female sacrifices, really we have no indication of its abilities.
All we know of it, is the Minotaur had the body of a man and the head and tail of a Bull (or sometimes the body of an ox and the head of a man) and was so feriocious that it was imprisoned in a maze and fed human sacrifices.
Its only later stories featuring Minotaurs that give them superhuman strength and the like but really there is no big indicator that the Minotaur Theseus slew didn't have it either, just as their is no big indicator it did.
I personally would have put the Minotaurs further down than the Zombies, i still think Cap could take them, just think he would find it harder than the Zombies is all.
But seeing a Fox has said that these Minotaurs are just normal humans with bulls heads then as he is the OP, I think they are fine where they are.
Last edited by Hercules on Sep 3rd, 2007 at 11:25 PM
As far as the thread goes - Captain America should get to the dragon, in my opinion.
From there it depends on the dragon. There are some dragons legends in which dragons are analogous to dinosaurs - big and dumb. Hell, there are even some small and dumb dragon myths.
Others, however, have them as wise, intelligent, immortal, unmatched for physical prowess, and even capable of wielding world-warping magic.
So....
What dragon?
Assuming Captain America makes it past the Dragon, I happen to believe he could take achilles, especially because he gets basic knowledge of his opponent (his name), and he grew up in the modern(ish) world. .
I think that Cap can clear it. Just cos Achilles was bathed in the river Styx doesn't mean Cap can't go for a knock out to win the gauntlet. Great match ups by the way
I'd say depending on the size and type of Dragon that it should be below Achilles, Homer's Achilles was not invulnerable he was simply immortal everywhere but his heal.
It was later that he became invulnerable in legend, he was actually wounded in the illiad, a dragon however is a whole other ball game depending on type and depiction as Soljer pointed out.
I say he stops at the Dragon for now, until Fox gives us clarfication on type etc.
KMC Community Forums
Sep 3rd, 2007 10:24 PM
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Fair enough, then.
