It wasn't the Surfer's power. It was the Crunch Energies that he channeled that they were in the immediate vicinity of. The Surfer was an insect to them. Aegis crushed him like one.
Again there was no proof he was starving or anyway weakened. We can make the arguement that Scrier encountered Surfer leading Galactus through space to what? His next meal? A Broadway show?
The narration made it clear, he was taken by surprise. Not that he was starving or in anyway enfeebled. Teneberous rocked him. Fxxked up his armor and caused him to bleed energy.
Oh and Galactus beat all the Gods by himself? Just like he beat FP Tyrant then almost got killed by "DP" Tyrant when they rematched on Galactus' hometurf?
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
So without Surfer's power being there, they would have just fallen in the Crunch and died then?
Really, if you don't understand the concept of getting help, or main characters you know, being part of the help, then you probably shouldn't be talking about comics.
Scrier getting help from Surfer is certainly no worse than Surfer actually beating TnA.
There is though. You're just really stubborn.
Also, on this whole contrasting note, Aegis got her head blown off by presumedly the Galactus Engine while Galactus was able to fight the Galactus Engine without getting his head blown off. Clearly she was equal to Galactus.
First off, they were right outside of the Worldship. Second off, if Surfer was leading him to anything it was the disturbance he sensed.
Taken by surprise on... a planet. When does Galactus go on planets? To eat them. Was the planet still there? Yes.
So what you're saying is... Tenebrous drained Galactus?
Because otherwise, I don't see the relevance.
Not the same thing......like at all. It would be like me finding a downed power line and using it to kill a UFC champ that was in it's immediate vicinity. Then claiming I'm strong enough to fry a UFC champ. The UFC champed wouldn't have just walked into the power line and gotten fried, but it sure as hell wasn't my power that fried him.
The Surfer just channeled the Crunch energy that they were in the IMMEDIATE vicinity of and destroyed their M-bodies. It wasn't his power that beat them anymore than it would be my power that fried the UFC champ in my example.
The narration made it clear he was taken by surprise. It in no way hinted that he was starving or weakened. If he really was in any way enfeebled I'm sure the narration would have made that point clear. Annihilus' precog wife outright stated that each of them were equal to Galactus. Teneberous, by himself, had Galactus on the ropes. Scrier and the Other did NOTHING to Galactus.
So Aegis had her M-body destroyed. It's not like that hasn't happened before and she and T got new ones right?
Scrier actually needed Surfer's help to setup a barrier to keep the Other out. Scrier is fail.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
Oh, so what you're saying is that it was exactly like DP Tyrant vs Galactus?
lol at M-Bodies.
Did you manage a sustained beating from "UFC Champ" and then run into the electricity with your own body that took out said "UFC Champ"?
Actually rephrase that, did you just take a massive beating?
But I guess we should have just had Surfer stand back while Scrier did all the work.
It was though. Galactus doesn't just go on planets to hang with the locals.
The narration didn't even narrate the battle for one. I don't even think it mentioned Silver Surfer. It was just meant to show the reader what happened, and piss Firelord off.
What the hell does Precog have to do with telling power levels? She couldn't even tell that Firelord was going to molest her.
We don't even know what happened. It was left out on how they came back. It was just a big plot hole. For all we know Galactus recreated them with a fraction of his power.
And I'd like to think if they had the ability to create M-Bodies, that they wouldn't have spent billions of years in a prison, as well as their leader would have also came back.
Also, that doesn't answer shit. Following this logic, it was meaningless, so why didn't Galactus get destroyed then?
Scrier needed Surfer's help to create a supermassive dimensional barrier meant to keep out a God who has taken out Surfer easier than TnA. And that makes him weak... do you proof read what you write?
Even ignoring the fact it all seemed a ploy to get Surfer on his side if the Other ever returns (and he did), but that in no way undermines Scrier if he did actually need more power.
Keep in mind this was right after he saved Surfer, got in a fight with Mephisto when he wasn't allowed to attack because he would kill Agatha, destroyed Mephisto, and was grabbed by the Other. Not that you care.
But the point is, I didn't put down the UFC champ, the live wire did. I threw it at him/used it against him.
And they were M-Bodies. How else could you explain them being shown again during Annihilation? If he really destroyed their essence and not just some Manifestation Body, they'dve been gone for good.
It really wasn't though. The narration made it clear he was taken by surprise only. No other factors determined his beatdown at their hands.
What do your scans prove? Nothing. Supposedly that older version of the Other was powerful enough to beat Surfer AND Galactus..............by himself. Yet the Other in the Thor Annual, even with Scrier's help, couldn't even scratch Galactus!
Ooopsie!
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
Good point, it wasn't Tyrant that put down Galactus, it was Galactus' machines.
Glad you agree to this logic.
Still confused as to how you can defend this little mishap, but absolutely jump all over Scrier using Surfer's help. Doesn't make a lick of sense.
I would explain it as a huge god damned plot hole.
Now how do you explain them being trapped for billions of years and the Leader, the most likely powerful one, staying dead?
That's only if you pretend you're Helen Keller.
That was an alternate reality Surfer traveled to... and it proves that The Other smashed Surfer far easier than Aegis and Tenebrous did, who at the time were being amped by the Crunch.
You know, because you're a huge fan of "contrasting"... except apparently when it doesn't fit into your narrow line of thinking.
You also forgot to answer practically most of my post.
Machines that Galactus cheated and resorted to before Tyrant took control of them himself and fxxked Galactus over? Because Tyrant didn't b|tch out and summon those machines, Galactus did. Tyrant didn't choose the battlefield, Galactus did (he even told this to Morg, when Morg questioned the logic of allowing Tyrant to board the ship).
Fact remains, Scrier needed Surfer's power to seal up the Other. Can't be that much of a threat if Surfer's measly power was enough to help Scrier fend off the Other.
Where was it stated T&A were being amped by Crunch energies when they smashed the Surfer?
The Other sent "mind entities" to beat the Surfer. T&A didn't resort to mind games, they fxxked his sh|t up the old fashioned way.
And what didn't I answer in your previous post? Excuse me for not being impressed that Scier beat a Mephisto that was inhabiting Tabitha's body ON EARTH. It's not like Scrier beat Mephisto in his hell realm.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
Surfer didn't choose the battlefield, TnA did. While cheating and drawing power from the Crunch's energies.
Yeah... so different.
Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. It still isn't worse than being killed in a battlefield where you're getting more powerful... by Surfer.
Your argument is nonsensical because of this.
... what...
You realize those beings can be and are physical, don't you?
A lot of it. Mostly common sense. You ignored why "precog" matters, why an M-body would matter anyway when Galactus wasn't destroyed, why someone needing help to create a giant dimensional wall meant to keep out an all powerful entity would make them weak, the contrast between the battles, that they were amped, etc.
Some you went back this post, and kind of acknowledged. However you straight up ignored it last post.
Dude where was the Crunch boundary when Teneberous and Aegis pushed Galactus' sh|t in and Aegis crumpled the Surfer like paper? They were nowhere near the Crunch.
The fact that they were near the Crunch when the Surfer used the Crunch energy to destroy their M-bodies was dumb luck.
Yes and? This was Mephisto when he was on Earth. Demons are notoriously less powerful on the Earthly plane than in their home realms. This isn't something new or unexpected. Scrier beat a Mephisto on Earth while Mephisto was possessing a body. Big whoop.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Mephisto deposed as Hell Lord at this time? I could have sworn he stated something to that effect.
Scrier NEEDING the Surfer's assistance to bind the Other leads me to believe Scrier wasn't all that (possibly the Other too).
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
No they weren't. But they were when Surfer was there. So... you defend Surfer beating amped TnA at the same time, yet just can't even fathom how Scrier would need Surfer's help.
It's hilarious.
Good. It's still worse than Scrier getting Surfer's help.
K, not impressive then. Everyone beats Mephisto like that.
He was dead and that was his way of coming back. Doesn't make him less powerful than normal.
No, it tells you that you'll use anything to throw a character under a bus.
He used Surfer's power to create a giant dimensional wall. What a pussy. You know who else is a pussy? Odin for using Surfer's power to save Beta Ray Bill.
LT needed Surfer's help to stop Rune when he had the IG too... he also used Strange's amulet to accomplish things too. Living Tribunal is fail. Zopzop logic is the best!
lol at Other being lower too because Scrier used Surfer's power to keep him away. Did you seriously just forget that the Other completely crushed Surfer easily?
They weren't amped because they were close to the Crunch energies. He was just restating the source of their power and he intended to use that against them and they just so conveniently happened to be standing within a close proximity to the Crunch Boundary.
Scrier crying to the Surfer for help vs the Other is far more humiliating because it wasn't a one time thing. Scrier tricked Galactus into borrowing Surfer again. Unlike the T&A incident where the Surfer ONLY beat them by channeling the Crunch energies at the Boundary they were in the immediate vicinity of.
Nope not impressive at all. Beating a deposed and recovering Hell Lord on Earth isn't impressive in the least.
The LT didn't need Surfer's help. Surfer himself says, it's within the LT's power to stop this and the LT responded that for him to act all three faces must agree : (please log in to view the image)
Yet Scrier NEEDED the extra power the Surfer provided to bind the Other.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
Or they were amped and drawing power from the Crunch.
Conveniently went out the window the same moment your mind did. You don't get to use that against me anymore.
Scrier didn't cry for help, he told Surfer to blast him to give him power. And within four panels he created the wall.
And Surfer's power was only relevant because Scrier was so powerful. And again, for someone so keen on pointing out how manipulative Scrier is, you sure like to ignore that in this case.
Also, it wasn't a one time thing? So Scrier asked Surfer to give him more power more than once? Scans please.
Because getting extra power isn't the same as being obliterated by the same guy when there's two of you. They got killed by the same thing amping them against a guy they left alive.
This is retarded.
You find a way to twist anything, don't you?
For someone who was so keen on doubting that Galactus was weakened (like what it basically states once you use common sense), you sure like to make up completely out of left field facts.
Find a scan that says Mephisto was weaker because he was dead. Find a scan that says TnA were using M-Bodies. Find a scan that says the Other attacked Surfer's mind with "mind entities", etc.
There is ZERO proof they grow more powerful closer the the Crunch Boundary. If that was the case it would be SUICIDAL for Galactus to pursue and confront them there. Seeing as how they waxed that ass when they were nowhere near the Crunch Boundary.
And it wasn't a one time thing. How else do you explain Scrier running to Galactus asking to borrow the Surfer?
The narration made mention of T and A taking Galactus by surprise and that's it. It never even hinted at him being otherwise enfeebled or starving.
If T and A were really dead and not just their M-bodies, what were they doing in Annihilation?
Demons are LESS powerful on Earth than in their home realms. This is a fact. Mephisto was not only on Earth, but he was recovering from death AND deposed from his kingdom! Come on dude.
The Surfer TOLD THE LT that he KNOWS the LT can end the whole Rune fiasco himself. The LT replied back that for that to happen all three of his heads must agree on something before he can act. This isn't rocket science.
This is a far cry from Scrier needing the Surfer to help his ass vs the Other. Not once, but twice. In fact, it was Scrier that sought out the Surfer both times.
Regarding the Protege, there's nothing wrong with losing to a guy that was MORE POWERFUL than himself and the only recourse the LT had was drawing power from an object the Protege hadn't yet witnesses in action (so the Protege couldn't have copied it's power) to pass judgement on him.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
Except for Surfer saying they do.
Unless he was fed, or unless his herald could solo both of them.
So, Scrier needed Surfer to pump him full of power more than once? Scans please.
Your whole point was that him needing power made him weak. Now it's just him getting help that makes him weak.
Fascinating mind.
They were there because DnA didn't read when Surfer mollywhopped them. Or the Big crunch rebirthed them to defend the universe from the cancerverse. Since there's nothing stated though, it's open to assumption. However, M-bodies isn't the answer to **** all.
And again, ignore this again, but if they could create M-bodies, then why would they stay in a prison for billions of years, and why wouldn't their leader bring himself back to life.
You can ignore that again though if you like.
I wasn't talking about him being more or less powerful on Earth. I never said he was as powerful as he was in hell. But I did ask for proof where he was stated to be less powerful than he normally would on Earth. Provide please.
But the LT couldn't because he needed all 3 faces to agree. IE he needed help.
But I agree, this isn't rocket science. Getting help from someone doesn't make you weaker.
lol at you now sticking with "twice". Surfer is the whole reason he woke up when he did. And per his earlier adventure, he feels somewhat connected with him.
Also, that's a lie. Scrier basically brought Surfer back to life. He sought out Surfer to HELP Surfer the first time.
And far cry? How is the most powerful being in regular Marvel getting Surfer's help better than just a powerful being getting Surfer's help?
Way to dodge the shit out of that one.
You ignored the part where LT was drawing on a power source far below his to pass judgement on a being above him. So unlike Scrier and Surfer.
You do understand though that you're defending Living Tribunal of all beings drawing on Ancient One's Amulet while throwing Scrier under the bus because he used Surfer's power though, don't you?
Because Surfer helping Scrier is so much worse than the most powerful being in regular Marvel drawing upon power from an AT BEST Skyfather level amulet.
Seriously.
What would a being that is supposedly Galactus' peer need the Surfer for anything? Surfer helped him the first time by feeding him PC to help trap the Other behind that barrier. Then at a later date, Scrier again sought out the Surfer's help to deal with the Other and ask Galactus to borrow him.
The Surfer said no such thing. He just commented that they draw their power from the Crunch and that's it.
There was no proof Galactus was starving when they jumped him (really only T was attacking him until Aegis finished with Surfer then joined in, despite the fact that T didn't really need help and had cracked and damaged Galactus' armor and made him bleed energy while T looked like he was untouched). The narration never even hinted at it. All it said was they took him by surprise and even then ONLY T was engaging him at first.
The LT was drawing on a power the Protege had not yet observed so he couldn't have copied! That's how the Protege's power worked. The Protege had already duplicated the powers of everyone present at that incident (with the possible exception of Scathan).
Yes he saw Talon fight the Demons but the Eye wasn't used! The Eye was the only thing he hadn't yet observed in action.
Surfer told the LT he KNEW the LT had the power to deal with the IG and Rune. The LT didn't deny it and stated for him to take action all three of his faces must agree. It's explained on panel.
The Scrier beat a deposed, recovering from death, on Earth demon. Big freaking deal. It's common knowledge demons are less powerful on Earth than in their native realm. Call me when he does that to a Hell Lord in his own kingdom.
The M-bodies thing is the only answer that makes sense, otherwise how do you explain them appearing just fine in Annihilation? That's sloppy even by Marvel standards.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
Proof that this wasn't all in his mind? He was feverish as a result of the soul virus that was infecting him. The same virus that infected that old lady till he freed her from those mind creatures.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
And your second part doesn't back up your first part, since "soul virus" kind of speaks for itself.
The thing devoured Surfer and spit him out. The Other was basically a super powerful mind that could do whatever the shit he wanted. It doesn't mean everything he did was mental... and it'd be kind of hard (to answer an earlier point) to kill and alternate Galactus and destroy whatever the shit he wanted with his mind.
Or devour Surfer and spit him out back into 616.
For help. duh
Why does Galactus need Surfer? Help.
I fail to see how asking Surfer for help the second time diminishes anything though. You haven't even begun to try to explain that one.
"They draw power from the Crunch"
That's not a past tense sentence. If they draw power from the Crunch, that means when they're right beside it... they obviously aren't drawing any more power.
The proof is in pudding. Even for how you usually cover your eyes and internet ears, this is pretty good.
Also, it says caught off guard by their onslaught. Among others. If onslaught means one head blast then...
Or caught off guard because he was about to feed on the planet when the A-Wave and TnA showed up. Which seems the more obvious one seeing as again, Galactus doesn't just go to planets to hang out and shit.
And you know what else... you can ****ing see Galactus' worldship above the world. http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/...gis/TandA02.jpg
Since you're going to ignore the top of the page, it's at the top of the page. The top of the page is opposite from the bottom. Use your eyes to look at the top of the page, and if you don't know up and down, think of the sky and the ground. The sky is "up". The ground is "down". Think of where your eyes go when you look at the sky, and look at that direction.
How do you ask why Scrier would need Surfer's help for anything at the same time you defend LT using the Amulet's power to pass judgement.
Also, Protege not observing it even if true doesn't begin to offer an explanation as to why the Amulet would help Living Tribunal.
It says right on panel that it supplemented Living Tribunal's own. http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/441454/Pro11.jpg.html
IE, he used the power of it... to help his own. He's Living Tribunal.
It's the exact same ****ing thing as the Scrier/Surfer example. Stop being a hypocrite.
Even if true. That's basically stating that any sort of power that Protege hadn't observed could be used to defeat him. He used a power so far below his own to defeat a being above him. Jesus Christ.
And again, he needed his help. Apparently having the power is irrelevant in your eyes, asking for help is just awful. Like Scrier asking for Surfer's help the second time.
Living Tribunal uses an Amulet so far beneath him... but that's alright because for some reason Protege not observing it means it's probably acceptable.
Scrier uses Surfer's power... bad very bad! lol fail. omg how weak.
Living Tribunal asks Surfer to help against a being beneath him... COOL!
Scrier asks for Surfer's help against a being possibly above him... how stupid, omg weak!
This is ****ing pathetic.
Show me someone beating Mephisto that easily outside his realm then.
I don't think you're the authority on making sense.
And you ignored why M-bodies makes no sense again. Like I predicted.
Of course it's sloppy. They didn't expand on it, that's sloppy. And so is making up a really sloppy explanation for it.
They got devoured by the universe that birthed them. That's what happened. Not that anything was said, but it makes sense that the universe rebirthed them in an effort to stop the Cancerverse.
Makes more sense than M-bodies anyway, especially since how would they know about the dimension that creates them when they were around when the universe was young, and their purpose wasn't that important.
Actually, I'm done. This argument sucks, and I'm going to do something else. You get the last word zopzop. Knock it out of the park like usual.
No, Galactus wasn't hungry. He was taken by surprise on a planet. No actual proof though. We don't know the exact circumstance. He could have shown up to destroy the A-Wave only to be attacked by Tenebrous and Aegis.
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Oct 30th, 2012 08:40 PM
