Byss and the Deep Core corroborates Book of Sith's claim that Sidious used the energy pool created by constantly leeching off Byss's inhabitants to perform "vile experiments" on "sentient life" to "increase his knowledge of the dark side." Sidious not leeching their life completely and simultaneously was actually very wise: by allowing the citizens to live and replenish what he took, he essentially had a perpetual battery to use for ongoing experiments until his death.
We know Sidious had already secured a means of functional immortality by way of clones and the essence transfer, so there's that. Not to mention that it's not as though Sidious had eight thousand Sith Lords on hand to aid him in any sort of ritual to replicate Vitiate's effort.
But if sheer speed of the attack is the standard for success, then Nihilus outstrips Vitiate and Sidious by far. He drained a world by uttering a word, did he not?
I hope you don’t mind that I will borrow your own words to make a point about DE Sidious vs DE Luke.
Don’t underestimate DE Luke.
Of course. The difference is that Exar Kun “pwned” Luke when he [Exar] was living in a spirit form for thousands of years. You are free to argue that Vitiate living in the same condition for millennia can replicate this feat. However, the fact remains that neither he, nor Exar, demonstrated this ability when they were well and alive.
Good that I never claimed that he is the most effective combatant. All I claim is that he is a better combatant that Vitiate, and his feats and hype illustrate this perfectly.
Surprisingly strong words to support your impotent argument.
“Far ahead” is a very radical stance to take. I advise you to reconsider it.
It is up to you to show how Vitiate is “far ahead of Sidious”. Remember also, I’ve already said that they are arguably even in Force powers. Realistically, this is how generous we can be with Vitiate.
Your first post fails to clear anything up. Try again.
I would also like to make a comment.
This is a combat scenario, so I think all feats that require ritual, preparation, charging up Force powers etc. are not to be used. (unfortunately this does not bode well to Vitiate)
Instead, combat is a matter of force, but also mastery, speed and agility. All of these are in favor of team 2.
__________________ Theory is like a box of tools. It must be useful. It must function. And not for itself.
Last edited by axel_jovan on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 03:38 PM
Only if you decide to take that literally. I guess then, Revan is the heart of the force. And it's not really an apples to apples comparison because Nihilus' drain was an offensive force power that didn't really grant him anything. I believe he had to keep eating force users or he would die. What Vitiate did was a completely different scenario.
That's the context I mean to apply to the drains. Vitiate's ritual was certainly remarkable, as was Plagueis's mastery of midi-chlorians, but neither of them are really applicable as a weapon.
But I'd like to hear your thoughts on Nihilus. Anything that reduces Nephthys and my favorite ginger to tears is welcome.
Funny how you lowball Sidious' mind domination despite Vitiate never demonstrating it at all. Strike team was his chance and he just knocked them unconscious with lightning. Sidious on the other hand just disarmed Luke and dominated him, while Luke was conscious.
In any case Vitiate won't be even able to invade Sidious' mind:
But there was a mental pattern the Emperor had taught her long ago, a pattern for those times when he'd wanted his instructions hidden even from Vader. If she could just clear her mind enough to get it in place—
Through the turmoil came a sudden jolt of pain. "Do not attempt to hide your thoughts from me, Mara Jade," C'baoth admonished her sharply. "You are mine now. It is not right for an apprentice to hide her thoughts from her master."
"So I'm already your apprentice, huh?" Mara growled, gritting her teeth against the pain and making another try at the pattern. This time, she made it. "I thought I had at least until I'd knelt at your feet."
"You mock my vision," C'baoth said, his voice darkly petulant. "But you shall kneel before me."
"Just like Skywalker will, right? Assuming he lives through this?"
"He will be mine," C'baoth agreed, quietly confident. "As will his sister and her children."
"And then together you'll heal the galaxy," Mara said, watching his face and listening to the turmoil in her mind. Yes; the barrier seemed to be keeping C'baoth back. Now if she could just hold on to that privacy a little longer . . .
This quote shows how Mara successfully used mental barrier against C'baot, who not only could mind dominate but completely restructure mentality and mind control like puppet. And this technique was learned from Palpatine.
This must be emphasized, Neph. Their enslavement to Vitiate might very well have occurred while they were unconscious and unable to properly defend themselves against such psychic intrusions.
The Emperor is more then a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)
Vitiate WTFpwned a Sith Lord at the age of 10. Do the math.
He isn't. Vitiate started killing adults since the age of 6. And during his reign as a Sith Emperor, he purged entire Dark Councils and subdued entire strike teams without much effort. I guess that you don't know anything about Vitiate.
ROTS Sidious have nothing on Vitiate.
Well, read this, genius;
The Emperor is more then a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)
You certainly have no clue of what you are talking about.
It is funny that I have provided this information in another debate.
Read it carefully. It doesn't implies what you are suggesting.
The Emperor is more then a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)
Their is no indication that the Emperor broke these Jedi after the fight; he did so during the fight. Yes, he pointed this out after the fight. The fight was scripted in this manner to make the audience/players understand that what Vitiate have done to these Jedi.
Also, Vitiate broke both Revan and Malak simultaneously with a fraction of his power. While both Jedi were on the precipice of the dark side when they met him, Vitiate didn't had to exert to break them either. He can legitimately break powerful individuals.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 08:35 AM
Vitiate has only mind ****ed Revan and Malak who were already falling to the Dark Side, and Tol Braga. None of these people are on the level of Sidious, Plaeguis or even Dooku.
With a fraction of his power as pointed out earlier.
This is short-sighted assessment. Revan understood the Force in ways that few individuals in the whole mythos did. This is why he was such a potent threat to even the greatest of the dark side practitioners.
Also, Dooku isn't such a big deal as you make him out to be. The guy has realistic limitations; he once got captured by some pirates.
Vitiate have demonstrated the capability to break multiple powerful individuals simultaneously on different occasions. It is futile excercise to argue over this. Sidious, Plagueis and Dooku lack in experience in this aspect.
Exactly, a 'suggestion' as I said. He was not dominated like Vitiate does with his victims. Vitiate owns their ****ing souls, Starkiller was just compelled to do what Palpatine suggested. And he didn't do it. He stands there considering it for ages allowing others to snap him out of it.
It happens off-screen and its ambiguous about what Palpatine actually did to him. That isn't usable in a thread.
Well no since we see him prepare to use his telepathy in Revan while in a duel. Read that section in the book again; the Emperor summons his energy for all of a few seconds (enough time for Revan to approach from across the throneroom) and then the attack is ready. What you're attempting to do is apply ridiculous amounts of prep time to weaken the obvious superiority of Vitiate's Force powers. Again, the measurement of time that we have, directly from the source (The novel) indicates that a matter of a few seconds is what's required at most.
We also have the time when Scourge almost shits his pants at the mere brush of Vitiates mind, witnessing untold horrors and collapsing to the floor:
'Scourge cried out in anguish as the Emperor’s mind brushed against his, then he collapsed to the floor, shaking like a child. The touch lasted less than a second, but in that time he witnessed indescribable horrors that dwarfed anything the dark side could conjure even in his worst nightmares. And beneath the formless terrors lurked the unbearable Void, the pure emptiness of total annihilation.'
Except that like Nihilus' technique, Vitiates telepathy has been said to be unblockable unless you can do Revan's lame Yin-Yang attack or know Vitiates 'tricks and traps'.
Feb 22nd, 2013 02:38 PM
