I'm sure that Vader is stronger than his ROTS self, so why would he lose to Dooku again? Only people who I can see lose to are Bane and Plaguies.
__________________ "Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."
Yea, you can fanboy all you want, I just don't see the point in assuming other eras are weaker 'just because,' without anything indicating that that's the case.
Whichever the era. Bane's, Krayt's, NJO, TOR, etc.. Plenty of feats, plenty of sword duels, I just find the excuses to discount them really weak, y'know?
The prequel era is supposed to be the jedi's golden age when lightsaber and force disciplines had been developed for generations. Bane's era just had a bunch of featless fodder and rule of Two meant each succeeding generation would be stronger than the next. For a real life comparison, it's like saying mankind was more powerful during the 1600s than today after years of technology development.
And we're comparing the very best of other eras to people a step or two down in the golden age.
I'm not, in fact, saying that the golden age didn't have the best. I'm just saying that other eras can still compete with the people who aren't the very best.
Bane's era had people honed in combat from centuries of war, though aside from Bane often slacking in non-saber disciplines, but never said to be slacking in that one.
And Krayt's era? Well, he's from the golden age himself, and has it's refined knowledge! As are multiple others, and we know the Jedi of that time were formed by Luke, who's stronger than anyone from the Golden Age.
Except for all the feats.
They might not have as many feats, but we still have some good battle histories on some of them, plus their battles against each other.
Or was supposed to be. There were times of stasis or even backsliding, including the time a Sith turned light and destroyed a lot of the knowledge before being taken down.
Also, one of the big purposes of his project was reclaiming lost knowledge. Even if you count Bane's era for less since it did have that problem, many other eras had that knowledge.
Except training people isn't exactly like technology. The biological bodies are still the exact same, and even the amount of talent with a sword. The force potential of the individuals, also, is completely decided by what you can find, if Bane has more potential than the Sith, say, 6 generations down, then that one'll just have to make due with skills in other areas to make up for less power. Bane appeared to be not all that far from the top of natural force power to begin with, so that specific area isn't one that can really increase through training. Well, at least until you get stuff like the creation of a being with far more force power.
Now, they did improve their knowledge of the dark side and came up with more techniques and such to help your force power, but we're talking improvement by inches as every bit of knowledge must be re-taught each generation before you start adding more, not technology-style leaps.
And, this isn't an entire society 'improving technology' like in real life- it's two researchers at a time. That makes for very slow work, inching along generation by generation.
A lot of the stuff we know they studied and spent a lot of time studying isn't combat-applicable- making a shadow in the force to hide them from Jedi precog was vital, but took a ton of effort and doesn't help in a fight. Essence transfer, manipulating the minds of the populace, manipulating midichlorians.
(in some of these cases, we know people from other areas who're better at them- Krayt and Muur surpass RoT Sith in life manipulation)
We have seen people from past eras show up and still be plenty powerful in other eras. Muur's talisman showing up convincing Vader that, (1), he could beat Palpatine with it, and (2) it may very well take him over in the process.
It's totally a feat. Especially if they're done in large quantity.
And Grievous's killing of Jedi is, in fact, a large part of his feats and why he's respected. Without that he'd just be the cyborg that Kenobi owned.
Really? Who?
I mean, let's face it, aside from late-war Obi-wan and Anakin he hasn't faced that many skilled foes.
Unless you're counting the likes of Ventress and Opress, in which case, them, better than Kas'im? Hah.
This is just kinda 'assuming them weak'. There aren't any low feats that indicate they're weaker, and they've been indicated to be walking death against most foes of their era.
Mace Windu and Yoda comes to mind. Anakin twice in TCW. Consistenly outdueling Grievous, beating Tholme and Bulq, beating Vos, Ventress and three Nightsister while drugged and blind.
Nothing suggests otherwise...
No it isn't. I'm just not going to rank someone high when they haven't accomplished enough to do it. It'd be silly to.
Vader's not going to take TCW Maul in Sabers. I find it very difficult to even believe he would match him.
The guy held his own for a while against Sidious. Completely stomped Opress who has bested the likes of Ventress and Plo Koon.
Not to mention his one one ones with Kenobi showed there's not much disparity between the 2 of them in Sabers. The same Kenobi who is the Master of Soresu and stalemated/bested Sith Anakin.
Dark Rendezvous suggests that ''Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground.''
Besides, they fought on Boz Pity in Obsession
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Bulq was able to fight evenly with Mace Windu. Not saying he's on their level, far from, but he's an accomplished duelist. It doesn't really matter, this is far from Dooku's best feat.
Another impressive feat from Labyrinth of Evil;
He flicked his blade quickly, ridding two of the guards of their staffs, then placing the glowing tip a millimeter from Grievous's death-helmeted visage.
Last edited by Intrepid37 on Apr 25th, 2013 at 06:08 PM
I concur with this. Further more, Asajj Ventress, while a extremely skilled duelist, has been able to fight on par with Anakin and Obi-Wan simultaneously. It does not indicate that she is on par with both of them.
While Kenobi's win was hard fought and well done, he ''only'' fought evenly with Maul in the Season 4 final, indicating they are on the same level in swordplay.
Ventress is on par with Obi-Wan and Anakin individually and yes, you're right, while wounded she was able to take them both on in "Nightsisters." Maul [literally] curbstomped Savage in "Revival" and Savage, in turn, not only defeated Anakin and Obi-Wan together in "Witches of the Mist" but ragdolled Dooku and Ventress combined in that same episode and drove them both to retreat.
Certain individuals have been deliberately conflating the exception for the rule.
Apr 24th, 2013 11:56 PM
