PIS is indeed a constant issue. But PIS also applies to non-combat Feats. I've seen characters that are well below Class 100 lift things that they have no business trying to budge.
That's why I always go with "consistent" or "repetitive" as a precursor for gauging what is PIS, and what is simply part of a character's power set. If they do something idiotic once, it is likely PIS. If they do something idiotic several times... then it probably isn't as idiotic as I thought, and I may need to re-assess just where on the "comic food chain" said character truly sits.
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Both count, but at the end of the day, how you do against your peers is always going to count more than any single feat.
You destroy a planet? Great; let's see how you do in combat against the other heralds in your tier. Combat rankings are a much easier, more exact line of reasoning imo, and they, when taken over time, give us a far better idea of how powerful a character is.
Most combat feats are PIS. There is no gold standard for the most part. Thing has went toe to toe with Namor as almost peers but Namor has went toe to toe with Hulk, Thor, etc.
Characters power levels fluctuate in comics depending on the story and plot. Hulk matching Gladiator doesn't mean he has the strength to push or destroy a planet. This is because Gladiator didn't have planet pushing or destroying power when he fought Hulk. The same goes with other characters. Characters who can move and react at speeds greater than light have problems with beings who are not even bullet fast. And that is very consistent thing in comics, a gold standard.
So for the most part, the power levels in a forum fight can be different than the ones in a particular comic. This is because we don't allow PIS.
We DO however use CIS. So Gladiator, not being a killer, doesn't go around shattering every opponent he faces like he did that planet. Ditto with Superman. Were they incapable during that fight? Yes, because their mental states act as a limiter. They hold back. Bloodlusted is another matter.
I lean toward combat feats. I have a definite bias against planetbusting (goes along with surviving supernovas and black holes). Although I know it's ridiculous to apply RL physics to comics, whenever I see a character bust a planet (especially with a single punch or blast), I take it as an over-the-top, done-for-effect feat because of the sheer amount of power required to explode a planet (minimally, 500x what the Sun puts out per second). Unless it's been well established that a character (eg, Galactus) has that much power, planetbusting is an outlier feat, imho (same with surviving supernovas or black holes).
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Wow. Respectfully, a lot of you don't seem to 'get' comics.
You can't try to filter the PIS out of comics. Comics ARE PIS. The relative rankings of characters are much more important and ingrained in comic 'reality' than what characters 'should' be capable of based on their powers and feats.
Remember, without PIS, most of the physically-based characters would be very low on the food chain. But comics has always been about extolling physical characters whose powers resemble augmented human abilities.
Essentially, feats are virtually 100% irrelevant with respect to their objective or empirically measured magnitude. Writers don't really care much about the implications of their space cheese and other big feats. The only time a feat tells you much is when one character is able to do something that another character cannot. And only then when it is happening under the same writer in the same arc.
Relative showings, combat results, comparative comments, etc. tell you where characters stand. Feats don't matter.
Panther/Surfer didn't happen...the Firelord and Spiderman showing has happened too many times for anyone to call it PIS. It's what Spiderman does. Look at the Masterson showing, look st his showing against a pissed Absorbing man. It's too consistent. Spiderman strength fluctuates anyways. The guy was punching holes in Ironman armor as if he was punching through paper.
Comics are inconsistent--even when just dealing with relative showings, comments, etc. (Although these are a model of consistency compared to empirical measurements of feats)
Spidey vs. Firelord is just an outlier. This stuff happens. You can average them out, or just kind of ignore the outliers the way figure skating used to drop the highest and lowest scores.
But what makes Spidey vs. Firelord an outlier is not the fact that Firelord has incinerated continents, but rather that Firelord has typically and normally shown strength and raw power in Thor's league.
See Masterson Thor/Spidey as per carver's comments, additionally note his showing against Phoenix 5 Colossus and Magik (he got beaten, sure, but he wasn't smeared into paste).
Ignoring it as an outlier throws up further problems, though. Flash, for example, has only thrown an IMP once. Twice, if you count his 'I'm hitting with the mass of a white dwarf star' comment. Do we ignore that as well?
Not a Herald buster, I just think his powerset allows him to hang with most and sometimes beat them, in time. It's like a child vs a grown man. Of course the hits from a kid will not drop someone at his prime but if it's consistent and coming at that person at a rapid/fast pace...it will take it's toll and that is what happened during every scene I brought up....Spiderman speed blitzed them until he wore them out.
Look at Wolverine...his powerset allows him to do better against bricks that teams/Heralds are having fits against. It's just how it is and it honestly makes sense imo.
It's not a science. But yeah, things that only happen once or twice and don't get picked up by multiple writers tend to disappear from a character's repertoire. Superman, for example, can't really be expected to whip out T-Vo anymore, etc.
True....but the Firelord example is different, as he's not just a brick. He has his own superspeed as well, right? Plus, durability showings far far above being punched by the proportional strength of a spider.
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Jan 22nd, 2014 12:33 AM
