Leonidas was a spartan, trained from birth to be an Ultimate Warrior, the brave 300 faced off against a million Persians, say they killed half that thats 1666 to 1. So what if there wasn't any individual feats to compare Leo to Themy if you listen to the narration in BOTH films Leo is described and heralded as one of, if not the best warrior Greece had to offer.
Are you kidding me? Individual feats are the only way we have of directly comparing their combat capabilities. Everything else is simply matter of opinion and hearsay. Quotes and comments are subjective and do not equal valid feats, especially when the narration throughout most of both films is done by other Spartans. Hell, the narration at one point also says that Artemisia was unmatched in sword combat by anyone else in Xerxes' kingdom, and Themistocles is her superior. Therefore, based on comments by people in the film, Themistocles > any warrior in the Persian empire. See how pointless a debate gets when we go from using actual feats to using comments made by characters?
Also, we have absolutely no idea how many Persian the Spartans killed. Seeing as they only fought for a few days, the chances of 300 of them killing 500,000 is extremely unlikely, to put it mildly. And we also have no idea of what kind of upbringing Themistocles himself had, so bringing up that point about Leonidas is useless too.
Themistocles has better individual combat feats than Leonidas, or any other Spartan shown for that matter. So based on feats, Themistocles wins.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Last edited by TheVaultDweller on Aug 27th, 2014 at 06:39 PM
This 100%. One-on-one, Spartans > Immortals. But we see Spartans getting overwhelmed by 2 or 3 Immortals at a time, and being killed. Themistocles took on several of Artemisia's personal Immortal guards and made them look like an utter joke. At one stage he even fights three of them at once, blocking, parrying and exchanging multiple blows from various directions and angles, while in a kneeling position, and takes them apart with ease. That is a feat way beyond what any of the Spartans, including Leonidas, have shown. And that is just one of his feats that puts him above them.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
What are you talking about though... First there are rough estimates on how many they killed at it was likely around 30,000 to 40,000.. The other thing people need to remember is there were about 10,000 other greeks who joined Sparta like the Thebans... Arcadians etc etc... So they dealt significant damage while vastly outnumbered. Anyways, the point is, Themistocles wasn't a warrior at all.. he was more a politician and strategist than a warrior at all. I doubt he even killed anybody in battle. So to hear you say Leonidas doesn't have the battle feats of Themistolces, is just, well kinda silly to me. Yes, it's fine to go by the movies and what they actually did. However, that shouldn't replace common sense and what we actually know and see. It should be a combination of both with a sprinkle of common sense. Common sense tells us... Leo utterly trashes him with utter ease.
Also Leo killing the giant Immortal was more impressive than Them killing 3 immortals at once... just saying since you want to through out logic and common sense about these two
Firsly, I specifically pointed out that they didn't reach anywhere near the half million mark. That's the point I was making. Even those "rough" estimates (indicating that they are ballpark numbers) are not even 1/10 of what the other guy was throwing out. My whole comment was aimed at showing that the 300 Spartans did NOT kill 1666 men each before dying. Not even close to that number. He was trying to overplay their abilities. All I did was correct him.
Dude, their RL counterparts have NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS FIGHT. Of course RL Leonidas would trash RL Themistocles, but neither are present here. It is their movie portrayals, based on fictional comic books, who are fighting here. This is the movie versus forum on KMC. Not the History channel. So bringing their RL abilities into this is completely and utterly pointless.
No, it isn't. The giant Immortal was slow and had no skill. And Leonidas was getting his ass kicked throughout that entire fight. He only won in the end because the Immortal decided to stop to growl and drool on him for a few seconds, instead of actually fighting properly.
Those same Immortal guards Themistocles effortlessly stomped at once were slicing through Greeks without pause. They all displayed way more speed and skill than the giant Immortal did at any point. And that is also not mentioning Themistocles taking out Artemisia right after that, who herself was shitstomping Greeks with ease at an earlier point.
Sorry but, based on screen feats (the only thing that matters in a VS match between two FICTIONAL portrayals of characters), Themistocles is both faster and more skilled than Leonidas is.
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Firstly, the greeks they were "slicing through" Weren't Spartan Greek warriors.. They were Athenian and a collection of other tribes... not nearly as impressive as slicing through a Spartan Phalanx... So no, it was not more impressive. The giant was throwing people around like a sack of potatoes. Leo defeating him was much more impressive.
I understand this is a vs. forum and I know what you're trying to argue here. All I'm saying is, try and use a little more common sense and objectivity. Don't you think it sounds kinda funny to give somebody a win who never drew a sword in battle over somebody who died in battle? I mean really?
Point is, they visually display WAY more skill and speed than the Uber Immortal. We see this with our own eyes. Not to mention we see, in 300, frontline Immortal troops overwhelming individual Spartans when 3-4 to 1. And these Immortals were Artemisia's personal guard, so likely the cream of the crop. And Leonidas was losing badly. He only survived due to MASSIVE PIS on the part of the Uber Immortal. He had Leonidas in a full mount position, at his mercy. He could have grabbed his skull and bashed it into the ground. Grabbed that spear tip and stab Leonidas with it himself. Or a bunch of other things that could have given him the win. But what does he do? He leans forward and growls at him, and seemingly tries to bite Leonidas' face, leaving himself wide open and defenseless against the spear tip to the eye.
Themistocles dodges blows from people WAY faster than the Uber Immortal, and on multiple occasions uses his speed, skill and technique to severe sword arms. So, based on that, Themistocles would have picked the Uber Immortal apart, piece by piece, due to WAY better speed, skill, and his fighting style.
If you seriously think Leonidas surviving due to PIS is more impressive than Themistocles effortlessly taking out multiple Immortals at once, followed by Artemisia, I really don't know what to say to you.
Except, he did draw a sword in battle. He has a whole film full of combat feats. Because this is MOVIE Themistocles. Not RL Themistocles. I am using common sense. I am applying the fact that we are in a MOVIE vs forum, in a matchup between MOVIE characters, and comparing their MOVIE feats to decide who wins.
The Persians also never had rhino cavalries. Are you going to tell me there aren't any rhinos in 300 because there weren't any historically?
Or let me try it another way. If I made a thread with Abe Lincoln Vampire Hunter vs some vampire, are you going to tell me he can't win because the real Lincoln never killed a vampire in RL? See what I mean here?
__________________ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Last edited by TheVaultDweller on Aug 30th, 2014 at 09:36 AM
Lol, Theo aint gonna go toe to toe with Leo, no way he matches Leo's strength. Theo is way faster and more evasive. He'll use that to his advantage and slice Leo to ribbons.
Yes, I am calling them Leo and Theo, their names are too long.
You're not understanding something... The immortals Them killed who were slicing through Greeks... Those greeks weren't Spartan Hoplites... They were Athenians and Thebans and other tribes. So, that isn't nearly as impressive as slicing through Spartans. That's the first thing you don't seem to get.
Second, you keep claiming PIS for the Uber immortal but that is just a lame excuse. I could claim it was PIS for Leo to even engage him at all... When he was fighting one greek Leo was just standing there as the uber had his back to him... he could impaled him right there... Or thrown a spear at him as soon as he attacked. I could say all those things but who cares. All that matters is... leo defeated him in battle. Also, how can you say the Uber was dominating him... Leo sliced his leg and stuck a sword in his arm before even being touched. I think you need to rewatch the scene in question. Him beating that immortal was more impressive than Them slicing though some immortals who beat a bunch of no name greeks. It really isn't close actually
Third, I understand perfectly where we are and you I get what you are arguing and why. What I'm saying is.. When two people are close to each other in a movie setting... which these two seem to be.. I would much prefer to go with somebody who I ACTUALLY know would shit stomp the other in real life. That's just me I guess.
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